View Full Version : Double points for last race meeting

tonybroad - n/a
13-Sep-06, 11:45 AM
I want to know others views on the 'double points for the last race meeting' rule

It's intention as far as i can see is to get people to turn up for the last race of the season, but i have a fear it may well skew results and not be a true reflection of the season

i.e. i'm 77 points behind Nick Long, way behind - if he has a bad meeting like he did at Whittlesey when Metzener took his duct off in practice, and i score as many measley points as i did last weekend i'd come 2nd in the championship when Nick has clearly been the 2nd place man all season

it may also skew things in the opposite direction - looking at other formulas things are very close

i'd like other opinions please


Nick Long - n/a
13-Sep-06, 12:23 PM
when Metzener took his duct off in practice...

..when Nick has clearly been the 2nd place man all season

Ahem. To be fair to Michael Metzner, the incident was not really his fault; I forgot that practice was longer than a race and stupidly ran out of fuel. One moment I was wondering why my engine had lost power, next second the whole world turned yellow.

As for the second point, I understand that you are making a point about 2nd & 3rd places but up until that incident I was actually in 1st place in the championship.

Anyway, I thought the double points last race meeting was not happening until 2007. Maybe by then it will have been reconsidered.


nickyd - n/a
13-Sep-06, 01:05 PM
I guess you had better hope that Nick has a bad meeting then!! http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif

tonybroad - n/a
13-Sep-06, 05:00 PM
from the rule book - d) All meetings will count towards the National Championship in each Formula. The

last race meeting of 2006 will attract double points.

p.s. - i wasn't having a dig Nick, just illustrating the point that someone with a large points differential may well see it disappear


chrismdaly - n/a
14-Sep-06, 01:04 PM

Technically I could almost beat you in one meeting. Surely a fairer method would be to take the top six sets of points as your placing for the year. It would lessen the impact of one bad meeting or one set of double points.

tonybroad - n/a
14-Sep-06, 03:15 PM

the problem with dropping a set of results is that does lead to people missing events

i think the solution is the one next year where you don't total every point you score but score points for 1st overall (25 points) 2nd (20 points)etc. for each race meeting

this makes everything closer all year with a good chance of positions to play for at the last meeting so no need to double points to attract people


chrismdaly - n/a
14-Sep-06, 03:19 PM

That sounds like a better idea. I now have to hope that consistent finishing at each meeting will pay off.

Lee w - n/a
14-Sep-06, 04:12 PM
I think the main reason for the double points was to make the last race meeting more interesting so that none of the championships are decided before it takes place. If different things are not tried we will never know. Lets see what happens if we don't enjoy we can always change.!! You must write your views to comps otherwise how do we know them, and things will stay the same.

Keith Oakley - n/a
16-Sep-06, 10:04 AM
As a non racer and developer of the software that tots these points up I'm strictly neutral on this. But the racing season is now fast giving way to the committee season. So as Lee Willars says now is the time to lobby committee members on what you, the member, would like to see. You'll find a list of committee members and phone nos etc under 'contacts' in the panel on your left. In the spirit of a 'Russ rant' to provoke debate let me offer the following:

Rant mode on

Double points for the last meeting is an interesting idea but why stop there? To encourage people to complete their new craft in time for the first meeting why not double points for that? We have a prob in that folk from Kent (my area) rarely travel long distances to events in Lancashire, so why not 50% more points if you travel more than 200 miles to a meeting? My point is that you very rapidly distort the whole points 'market' and make it worthless.

Ideas like this are generated because committees anxious to achieve change find fiddling with rules the easy thing to do - it's totally within their power at the meeting. More fundamental things require work outside the meeting by people prepared and able to put their time and skills into it. That's not a comment on the Hoverclub committees it applies in all clubs and businesses.

So when you lobby your committee members don't just say 'we should do x', come up with ideas on 'how'. In my view some of the major challenges facing the club (and 'hows') include:

The long term impact of noise on members and public opinion

-more active policing of existing limits and research into quieter technology

Finding better race sites

-on the ground spadework approaching site owners

Gaining and retaining more new members

-better mentoring of new members by local members

Rant mode off

Nick Long - n/a
16-Sep-06, 11:15 AM
These are interesting ideas, Keith.

If the thinking behind varying the points is indeed to influence the likelihood of people coming to a given meeting, then we should set about it properly. Social engineering of this sort needs a fully thought out, market based, scientific approach with adaptive, compensatory, software controlled, feedback.

One way of doing this is to declare that a fixed number of points will be awarded at each meeting. Let's set a large number, and just hand out the leftover ones randomly at the end of the meeting. Then if only a few people go to the meeting, they each get more points. That way people are encouraged to go to the unpopular meetings and stay away from the oversubscribed ones.

Another way is to have a kind of auction on the website. In the run up to the meeting, the number of points to be awarded is posted on the website, and this varies each hour according to how many people have booked places.

[serious mode on]

Your idea of more points for the first meeting is already in place. Starting with a 3 day meeting means 150% more points. This is being undone in the new rules.

We also already have variable points per meeting. If a race is dropped for some reason, then the maximum points awarded is reduced.

So in the existing system we actually have not only variable but unpredictable points per meeting, and it will be good to see all that go.


Barry Staples - n/a
17-Sep-06, 06:49 AM
I think the Double Points for the last meeting will skew the results. It is attempting to ensure that all drivers attend the last meeting, but I fear that in attempting to do this, it will skew the results in other ways. An unexpected end of season engine mishap could undo a season of hard racing.

The last meeting has been traditionally a fun meeting, where drivers have swapped craft, tried new things and generally enjoyed themselves.

I urge all drivers to write direct to Comps as they take no notice of what is said on the Bulletin Board, as it is not an official channel of communication.

If you have a view on this, put it in writing now.

Barry Staples

david ryan - n/a
17-Sep-06, 03:57 PM
I've got to agree. Most drivers make it to as many meetings as they can. Why should a driver be penalised because he/she did not make it to a particular meeting or has m/c problems at the last meeting?

I say, leave well enough alone.

Another change that I have problems with is the move from points per race to points per meeting. At a 3 day event, drivers have to put in 50% extra effort, thier craft have to be 50% more reliable they have to keep out of harm's way for 50% longer and commit to 50% more time. Why should they not get 50% more points? From my own personal point of view, as I have to pay ferry costs just to get to Wales, never mind the costs of driving 300 to 400 miles, I 'd like to see just reward for my efforts. 50% more effort / 50% more points.

tonybroad - n/a
18-Sep-06, 08:14 AM
although this is not the official line of communication for comps or any other commitee it does however give us all a chance to air our views and see if our opinion is shared by others before voicing our concerns officially

let's see what happens at Jakes, i predict there will be some unhappy people who feel they have been wronged and some happy people who feel they have been gifted a prize they probably don't deserve


chrismdaly - n/a
18-Sep-06, 03:35 PM
I joined this club to have fun. For me the thrill of each race is unique. To match my talents and craft against someone else who is similar is a thrill. The points system will prove that I have done it more times than someone else and not always that I can drive a craft better. Some craft within a formula can have hugely varying power outputs. Is this an unfair advantage in the drive to accumulate points?

This season has, for me, been a series of meetings with friends to spend weekends testing my skills and the construction of the craft against those of likeminded people. My accunulation of any points is purely coincidental. Each meeting, including the worlds has produced emotional highs and lows based on immediate events. The social aspect, including juniors, is one of the most attractive aspects of hovercraft racing.

I was told after competing in one race at Rother Valley that I would receive no points because I had the wrong number on the craft. The reply was 'Never mind, it was good fun anyway!'

If we put too much weight on the accumulation of points and not the other aspects of this club, will it shrink to a small clique of serious racers?

Hovercraft_j3 - n/a
18-Sep-06, 03:46 PM
Just a suggestion how about instead of double points the person that came 1st at the end of the race meeting gets and extra 20 points and then the 2nd person get 17 extra points and so on and so forth.

That would solve the idea of no double points but still makes the meeting more interesting.

LouiseBeale - n/a
18-Sep-06, 04:40 PM
I am in favour of the double points at the last event. This is for two reasons:

1) the championship is not decided before the last race meeting, which has so often been the case

2) drivers who have previously given up (as in completely stopped racing) early in the season, due to one bad event meaning no chance for the season, have been encouraged to continue through the season becasue with double points at the last race meeting there is a possibility to catch up

For me it is a more bums on seats issue, which makes the racing more fun for everyone I in my opinion.

Iceman - n/a
18-Sep-06, 08:29 PM
I think everyone is missing one fundamental point here! It doesn't matter if you award 20 times the points for a particular event, if you can't afford to attend, you won't go!

I think the reason some events are not attended is because of the cost involved in attending all the events and so a selection has to be made by some people. I am NOT saying race meetings are too expensive, obviously if they could be cheaper that would be good but I know that is not easilly possible and generally speaking, our sport is still relatively cheap, but the costs do add up and we all have our limits.

Another point to consider is how many people are affected by the points? Usually its only the top few drivers who are bothered about their points enough to make the effort to attend all the meetings and these drivers would probably attend them all anyway. In the past a few drivers have missed the last event due to the fact they have already accumulated enough points to win the Championship, but this is a rare occurence and does not warrant a rule change to try and 'force' drivers to attend.

As someone has already mentioned above, this issue needs to be fully investigated. Personally I don't think there is anyway you can manipulate the rules or scoring system to encourage higher attendance. However, make events more socially inviting and race courses more exciting to drive around and I think the numbers attending will increase.

Sam Keates - n/a
20-Sep-06, 05:01 PM
As i'm a non-driver maybe i'm speaking out of turn, but...

...speaking to a lot of drivers its the taking part that counts not the winning - although maybe they only say that when they are returning to the pits on the recovery trailer!

However a possibility would be to award 5 points (for example) for every race meeting attended and therefore those that turned up every meet regardless of how good there craft was would see some reward for their dedication and commitment to the club.

This may also help those that have a slower but more reliable craft!

This over the course of the season may make a difference to the points by the time the last meeting comes around!

Barry Staples - n/a
22-Sep-06, 07:51 AM
I would like to repeat Kevin Fosters note in the Racing Forum.

Write today if you have any comments

If you have any proposals for competition rule changes , the deadline is 3 days after the last race meeting of the season. So for changes to the National Inland competition rules, the deadline is Wednesday 27th September.

If you have any proposals please send them to me or any of the other Competitions Committee members (see "Contacts" for further details) before the deadline. Written proposals can be accepted at Jakes Place this coming weekend or by post to the Comp's Secretary, Sam Bateman or to the HCGB Membership Services officer, Louise Beale.


Kevin Foster

Copied by Barry Staples