PDA

View Full Version : Rules. Allegedly



M Neale - n/a
24-Oct-06, 06:27 PM
Hi All.



Recently a friend of mine qualified from novices (in F2) and wanted to go in to F1. He approached comps in the correct manor. Was supported by other F1 drivers and was promptly refused. Earlier on this year another driver who had not completed his novices was allowed to move up in to F1 (he competed in F1 in novice). Again he approached the race director and the drivers and all agreed this would be OK for him to move in to F1. Comps have said there are rules and they dont break rules. Doesnt seem a lot of difference to me. What do you think ???. Doesnt seem fair to me !!! http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_mad.gif http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_mad.gif

slarman257@aol.com - n/a
24-Oct-06, 08:26 PM
I for one could not understand the logic of the F1 qualifing process, if i was starting out again i would just buy a 503 and stay there because of the financial implications of changing formula. I think people would much rather be able to make the investment into racing for the formula they aspire to rather than taking some truncated and expensive route to it. People are fully capable of assessing the risk of racing an F1 and should be allowed the ability to race them if they so desire.



The current rules where brought about because of an incident during a Novice race i believe? (mabye someone from committe could expand) and whilst i understand the difficulty of having a lot of craft of varying speeds and little experience, but excluding F1 novices was not the answer! It may take a split of formulas (2 novices races) to split the faster craft or even timings from the ELS could be used to split the field. not exclusion!



Another problem with whats been done is that unless you have big pockets why would you be willing to invest all that time and money, to basically bin your craft as i feel there will be no second-hand market for them. This was my primary reason for changing all my plans and pulling back from the sport. I loved racing Hovercraft the people and everything about, but after a lot of thought i decided that it was not a good use of the money and other sports are offering a lot more for a lot less.



Simon Larman

Jamie Lewendon - n/a
25-Oct-06, 11:43 AM
No Baz, the circumstances were not the same. It was discussed in detail, and the commitee decision was no.



Jamie

Russ Pullen - n/a
25-Oct-06, 12:46 PM
I was in on the original discussions during my spell on comps about 4/5 years ago. In fact, it was my original suggestion (if not proposal) that F1 novices should be banned.



And it's a suggestion that i stand by. I truly believe that F1 in the hands of a novice is downright dangerous for the driver, other drivers, the public and potentially the sports image.



I've driven a top F1, and the difference between that and my F1 of 1999 is astonishing. That was no slug with 110bhp but come on! 170bhp in a 250kg craft with a novice at the helm is madness. A new driver may scr@pe thru a novice test but that doesn't qualify you, in my opinion, to risk everyone elses well being by racing it. You need to learn to race, as well as learn to drive your craft. Jamie's friend who has compelted Novices should be able to race in F1 if he was adjudged as being safe, and to the best of my knowledge there's no rule preventing him from doing so.



You can't just buy a Superlicence and race in Forumla One motor racing, or the top level of pretty much any motorsport. And most vehicles are more predictable, have brakes and don't take off or just stop dead at 60mph.



F1 is the pinnacle of our sport and should be treated with respect. But it shouldn't be allowed to bring about the downfall of the sport as a whole.



Its not an arguement that is any more easily decided than the ongoing 'Which engines for juniors' discussions.



It's a litigous world we live in nowadays and if the unthinkable was to happen and we'd let a total novice or junior compete without relevant experience and safety procedures in place, the club could face a disaster. F1 is more likely to produce that incident than any othe formula.



Jamie, specifically what rule is Comps quoting which is preventing your frind from racing?



Russ

u415276 - n/a
25-Oct-06, 12:58 PM
If the issue is a qualified driver (no longer a novice) wishing to partake in F1 then why not?

The rule banning F1s from Novices was specificly to protect the other Novices (assumed to be unable to drive) from big, heavy, fast craft driven by other Novices (also assumbed to be unable to drive). If the person in question is qualified out of Novices (and by definition now can drive) they would then be in F1, who are we trying to protect? No longer Novice drivers because they are still in Novices. Therefore why restrict them.



A quick review of the rules for 2006 reveals that newly qualified drivers are not banned anyway, Rule O under Novices implies that for early qualification to F1, opens and Fs you need race directors permission, but whilst theres rule K which prevents them going into opens there isn't actualy a rule that specificaly states that a newly qualified driver cannot go striaght to F1.



and as stated above, i'm not sure why you would want to ban them, would an extra 10 races in a lower formula actualy prove they could / could not drive an F1? surely only that could be proven by letting them on the course. They've got to start sometime.

If Comps keep on building further barriers to entry for F1 then we'll be left with a few old farts like myself (who cant aford to do any thing else because theres no second hand market for the old F1 craft (or new for that matter)) because no one else is allowed to come and play.



just my two peneth

Dan

M Neale - n/a
25-Oct-06, 05:22 PM
Hi Jamie.



So Phil cant go in F1 one with a 503 powered craft but could go out and buy the same type of powered craft as what you race with in F2 which is a lot quicker than the F1 he was putting together ????. Now would that be deemed to be dangerous. Also looking at the other responses to this delicate question it seem that there is not a rule to stop Phil going in F1 anyway if he now so wishes. I am not 100% on this so perhaps you could clarify that for me.

kevinf - n/a
25-Oct-06, 05:35 PM
Rule 3.1

N. In order to compete in Formula 1 or Formula S qualified drivers must complete a further 10 races in national formula 2, 3 or 503.

slarman257@aol.com - n/a
25-Oct-06, 08:33 PM
1. I truly believe that F1 in the hands of a novice is downright dangerous for the driver, other drivers, the public and potentially the sports image.



2. F1 is the pinnacle of our sport and should be treated with respect. But it shouldn't be allowed to bring about the downfall of the sport as a whole.




1. By that rational are you saying only F1's are a problem, isn't that like saying you couldn't run down a pedestrian in a "Smart car".



2. And the rest of the sport shouldn't be allowed to bring about the eventual downfall of F1.



You tried F1 for a while and decided it wasn't for you all i'm suggesting is that other people should be allowed the same! The club still retains the right to stop you racing if they feel the need.



Simon Larman

HAVERCRAFT - n/a
25-Oct-06, 09:06 PM
Rule 3.1

N. In order to compete in Formula 1 or Formula S qualified drivers must complete a further 10 races in national formula 2, 3 or 503.




Well thats that then!!!

Chrisgr31 - n/a
25-Oct-06, 09:20 PM
1. By that rational are you saying only F1's are a problem, isn't that like saying you couldn't run down a pedestrian in a "Smart car".




No its not. Its like saying that when you have passed your driving test you shouldn't be let out in a Ferrari, although of course you are. However car accident records prove that newly qualified drivers are involved in a lot more accidents than those qualified for some time. Which would seem to prove Russ's argument.

Russ Pullen - n/a
25-Oct-06, 10:05 PM
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">kevinf wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 18&#58;35</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Rule 3.1

N. In order to compete in Formula 1 or Formula S qualified drivers must complete a further 10 races in national formula 2, 3 or 503.




Well thats that then!!!


</td></tr></table>



Yup!



Didn't know about that one. Looks like they've gotcha bang to rights.



Still think its a good thing to make people get experience before they're allowed into the premier formula.



My opinion isn't formed solely becuase of my own exeriences in F1, tho that obviously has a bearing. Its based on the fact that for the comparitively cheap price of 7-8k, you can buy a ludicrously fast craft, and go out and race it without any experience whatsoever.



F1's dodgy, check out the red flag tally if you don't believe me.



What we don't want is too many repeats of the 'Steve Crank' incident. Drivers should be brought on in a (reasonably) safe environment to develop their driving ability before strapping 160bhp to their backside.

slarman257@aol.com - n/a
25-Oct-06, 10:06 PM
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">f1simon wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 21&#58;33</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">


1. By that rational are you saying only F1's are a problem, isn't that like saying you couldn't run down a pedestrian in a "Smart car".




No its not. Its like saying that when you have passed your driving test you shouldn't be let out in a Ferrari, although of course you are. However car accident records prove that newly qualified drivers are involved in a lot more accidents than those qualified for some time. Which would seem to prove Russ's argument.


</td></tr></table>



but in the world of cars we dont have someone telling us we can't, it left to our own judgement which was why i got involved in this thread in the first place. people should be judged on their merits and ability to handle their machinery, not by someones fear that they "might" not be capable!



If the Goverment with all its resources and studies hasn't placed a restriction upon new car drivers, how is that the Hoverclub with its limited resources is capable of making a restrictive decision like that and goverment isn't, and cars have killed a lot more people than hovercraft have.



Simon Larman

Russ Pullen - n/a
26-Oct-06, 09:05 AM
Becuase, you muppet, driving a car isn't racing is it? You're comparing road cars crusing to racing, when you should be drawing the parallel to the HCGB race series.



And we're talking about top-level racing here. Try to get a race licence from the RSA Motor Sports Asscosiation and you have to pass a test - but you're still restricted on what events you can take part in until you gain relevant experience.



Anyway, you can't even handle a 2 litre people carrier without writing it off - if memory serves...? http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif

team gill - n/a
26-Oct-06, 11:05 AM
I agree with a lot of what people are saying, but if me or my brother had not been given the chance we whould not be here today. why not give f1 novice drivers more novice races before qualifying.

Denise Talbott - n/a
26-Oct-06, 12:34 PM
Hi All



Here's my thoughts! I decided to have another go at racing this year in probably the fastest 503 craft. I have driven before and had a more than capable craft, so wasn't a 'complete' novice with an unreliable engine.

In my second 'race' I took a corner as a 503 craft does and an F1 craft came up behind me and took the corner completely differently. He drove into the side of me and sent me & craft rolling. Of course I was unceramoniously dumped out. It hurt, but not too seriously, but it shook up both me & the other driver as well as the other novices around us. Total accident - but never-the-less scary.



My point is that F1 craft mostly handle totally differently to other formulas and I for one was really pleased when the driver was qualified up. I now only had me and other fairly similar craft around me to worry about. The F1's are also a lot heavier and that makes a difference too.



Recently I drove an F1 at a hoverin - I loved it - but no way would I go into F1 without a lot more experience - at least 1 year of qualified racing. (even with just a 503 engine in the back).

I have also marshalled (just a bit) and have seen what it's like from that angle. I was on the committee that made the novice rule and stand by it 100%



Hope this helps - safety is the most important thing.

By the way Russ - the new red flag book hasn't shown up as F1's being the biggest cause. Detiails at the AGM I guess!

u415276 - n/a
26-Oct-06, 02:39 PM
Muppet? thats a bit rich comming from someone who forgot to fill up with fuel before going out in a 1 hour endurance race.



My 3 year old son thought Russ' 'racer' was more interesting parked up full of water in the WHF padock than whilst out racing.



Getting back to proper racing matters, yes F1s do drive differently to most other (intergrated) craft, and yes they've been removed from Novices because they are heavy and sometimes involved in accidents where the other person often comes off worse. But why stop drivers from moving up to the class when they've graduated from Novices? As if three years of driving around in an F3 or F503 will make them anymore suited to driving an F1? (In fact if you embed the F503 style of driving early enough and for two long then drivers will not be able to adapt easilly to the different handling requirments of an F1).



Steve Cranks accident was a special case where he suddenly got an awful lot of performance he wasnt expecting on a realy nasty crowded bit of course packed with other craft, don't forget he did his novices with an F1 and ran his new F1 for a number of meetings before the big accident, he wasn't a stranger to the craft. If were going to start that sort of argument how many broken bones have we had in F503 and novices this year? and i also understand a certain ex F1 world champion has fallen out of an F503 craft 3 times this year. Does that make F503 dangerous? or for that matter cause the race director to question Conrads ability to race in F1 (or juniors for goodness sake).



At some point someone wishing to enter F1 will have to have their first race somewhere at some time, why cause loads of grief and hassle by stipulating when and what craft they can use, let them do it when they feel they are ready for it. Don't forget, to many this 'sport' is just a hobby and an F1 is a practical way of having fun that the larger individual cannot do in a lower power craft (not having a dig at anyone, but if you weigh 15 stone a F503 or F3 is going to be boring).



Dan

Anne Scrimshaw - n/a
26-Oct-06, 02:52 PM
Also don’t forget it’s not necessarily the novice in the F1 that’s the problem, it’s the novice in the slow craft that ploughs in right in front of him/her, that might be.



I’m all for accessibility for new drivers, but when you can have a 90 Bhp craft in F3, I can’t see why people aren’t happy to progress up the formulas – it makes you a better driver in the end.



F2 seems fast enough to me - but then maybe that's because I'm a girl.



Anne

LouiseBeale - n/a
26-Oct-06, 05:40 PM
And I give up so much of my free time to recieve this sort of public criticism?

Baz, you could have picked up the phone, to any one of 12 people, and asked the reasons before going public with your criticisms, and then you might have got your facts right too.

Well, if you can't be bothered, then nor can I.

slarman257@aol.com - n/a
26-Oct-06, 05:41 PM
Dan, Hear,Hear!



Russ, i was trying to rationalise a point about Ferraris and new drivers on the road made by others.(maybe not well)

You are Right http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_eek.gif about the RSA and licences, but they won't restrict the car type you want to use, but you have to prove to them that you are cabaple on a track at your own expense before they will issue it. Not tell you can't FULL STOP!



Anne.

"I’m all for accessibility for new drivers, but when you can have a 90 Bhp craft in F3, I can’t see why people aren’t happy to progress up the formulas – it makes you a better driver in the end."



I believe the cost will make them not happy, finance needs to be factoring effect, if my understanding of the rules is correct, if i turned up at a meeting as a new driver with an F1 i wouldn't be allowed to use it. I would need to beg,borrow or steal an F3 or F2 to race novices(unlikely if i was a new face) so i would have to head home, buy myself a lesser craft to race my novices and then 10 more senior races before i could use my F1 and still have another craft i didn't want in the first place.



i also don't completely agree that to be a better driver you need to climb a formula ladder, i didn't, i went straight into F1 and wasn't that bad was i? (open season for ridicule and abuse)



"it’s not necessarily the novice in the F1 that’s the problem, it’s the novice in the slow craft that ploughs in right in front of him/her, that might be."



Not sure what you mean by above comment are you saying the F1 isn't the problem or it is because it hurts when it hits you. Because it hurts when you get run over by a Fast F3.



Simon Larman

M Neale - n/a
26-Oct-06, 06:04 PM
Louise.



It wasnt a case of speaking to twelve people about it. The fact is that the bulletin board is for debating topics like these. It wasnt a dig at anyone at all and if you feel this way then I apologies as it was not meant in this way. I appreciate all the time people give up so we can race and I thank all. If I have hurt anyone elses feelings then let me apologies to them also but it's about the formula which I am involved. I will propbably never win anything but I dont do it for that. I do it for the enjoyment of racing. Not going round on my own all the time as all F1's have done at some point this year. At one race as you know we had one craft going round for part of the race. Luckily it was at a meeting that not many public go to. If it had been a Claydon ????



I just wanted to get some opinion from other people on this subject and also try and increase the F1 grid.



Once again sorry Louise

slarman257@aol.com - n/a
26-Oct-06, 06:17 PM
I personally am not criticising anyone efforts and time spent running the club, you all deserve a pat on the back as far as i'm concerned, but the club can't be right all the time and i feel personally i this case they weren't and i feel the F1 field is living proof.



I just never agreed with the F1 restrictions put in place and are trying to re-open the debate.



Simon Larman

Philip Morris - n/a
26-Oct-06, 07:49 PM
This one has opened a can of worms, as most of you will know its me who asked to go to f1, two reasons I am 18 stone and find my 503 power restrictive and after spending a day in the f1 craft that I was intending to buy (John Reece's)I found it far more managable and more like hovering should be - enjoyable.However comps made its decision and thats that.

I have read all the comments with great intrest and agree with most of it.I had no intention of strapping 150 bhp to myself as comps knew.As for racing experiance:- true one year in hovering but 27 years in moto x, enduro, grass track and beach racing {long time ago).I would like to say a big thank you to Baz, Mike King Dan N, Dan T and Simon for all their support. I would also like to say how sorry I am that Simon is leaving the sport we have lost a valued club member and his family.

I hope that the rules governing F1 don't bring about it's downfall as some members predict.

Best wishes to all

Philip Morris

Jonathan - n/a
27-Oct-06, 12:04 AM
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Quote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">


If the Goverment with all its resources and studies hasn't placed a restriction upon new car drivers, how is that the Hoverclub with its limited resources is capable of making a restrictive decision like that and goverment isn't, and cars have killed a lot more people than hovercraft have.



Simon Larman
</td></tr></table>



1) The Italians had/ have a law based on cc to do just that!

2) Exactly how many newly qualified car drivers can afford a Ferrari?



Amongst my group of friends I'm widely recognised as the one 'most likely to try something stupid', but even I drew the line at a F1 hover!

The whole argument about Novices is that at their first race meeting they have NO experience! Having qualified from novices they then have to learn how to race vastly more capable drivers, trying to do so in a F1 is madness.

The gap between a front running 503 and a backmarkers 503 craft is BIG, I would respectfully suggest that you try a quicker craft, I still wonder at the quantum jump I experienced moving from my battered eagle to my current FX.

F503 is the most sensible place for Novices to start, you can have too much power IF you have too little experience!

chrismdaly - n/a
27-Oct-06, 07:53 AM
Under modern law there is such a thing as 'Duty of Care'. As officers of this club are seen in the same light as the management of a company, would they be found in breach of their 'duty of care' to a member if they did not take reasonably practicable steps to lower the risk of injury?

Russ Pullen - n/a
27-Oct-06, 10:34 AM
Muppet? thats a bit rich comming from someone who forgot to fill up with fuel before going out in a 1 hour endurance race.




Yup, fair comment! You should have heard what i called myself - it was a bit stronger than 'muppet' http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_confused.gif

Philip Morris - n/a
27-Oct-06, 02:39 PM
hi chris, point taken. But when politics become involved in motorsport it spells disaster look at f1 {cars} follow my leader ?



While i fully agree the club has a duty of care to all its members and public, surley it must be left to the individual to know his/her own capabilities.

charfont - n/a
27-Oct-06, 03:50 PM
for those who arent happy with comps and unfair rules do somthing about it and put yourself down for elections.



try this link if you missed it.



http://hovercraft.org.uk/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=65 (http://hovercraft.org.uk/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=656&start=0&S=37549efd1effd2afc20d8552b48203c9) 6&start=0&S=37549efd1effd2afc20d8552b48203c9

Don83000 - n/a
28-Oct-06, 01:57 AM
While i fully agree the club has a duty of care to all its members and public, surley it must be left to the individual to know his/her own capabilities.




And then when somebody is either seriously injured or even killed the club would be able to turn round and say to the distraut family "Well odviously they did not know their own capabilities but what the hell they had a go"



"Enter the media" "Exit any further insurance cover"

End of hovercraft racing !!! Game set and match and all because a person did not want to do the sensible thing and work their way up through the classes which as in most other sports is mandatory anyway. Name any other motor sport that allows you to do a few novice races then jump straight to the pinnacle of the sport.

GavinParson - n/a
28-Oct-06, 09:35 AM
Yup, I've given up hovercrafting and written to Ferrari asking to do F1 now old Michael is retiring.

BTW I've got no experience but I deserve to drive don't I? http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif

M Neale - n/a
28-Oct-06, 11:20 AM
I do believe there is a current F1 driver that went straight to F1 from formula renault and not through the expected route of F2, F2 and Formula 300/GP2 and I might add is taking over from Michael Schumacher next season but you cannot compare this to Hovercraft racing as F1 is a professional sport and hovercraft racing is amateur.



By the way it's Kimi Raikonen.

Don83000 - n/a
28-Oct-06, 03:12 PM
You must admit this is not the norm and Kimi started in Kart racing then moved to formula Ford then to formula Renault and it was the FIA that said due to his outstanding performance and consistency that they would allow him a super licence as a try out for F1 so it was not a case of I have the money to afford to race in F1 so therefore I must be allowed to do so at all costs.

So maybe it should be that a person starts in the lowest formula and proves they are the tops in this then moves up to the next formula and again proves themselves to the race officials that they are top of their class consistently and that the race directors think this person has the potential to become a top safe F1 driver then after a vote of the race directors / safety officers etc decide if its viable to give this person the chance to join the elite. At the end of the day this sport has got to be seen to be kept as safe as possible for all concerned or it will be a sport no more. From reading between the lines it seems there are more than enough injuries happening in the lower formulas already so maybe something should be done about this before worrying about F1.

hovmart - n/a
28-Oct-06, 03:28 PM
good luck in your new chosen sport http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif

Philip Morris - n/a
28-Oct-06, 04:37 PM
get your facts straight i was asked by four f1 drivers to make my request to ride f1 and did so with their backing

Dan Newton - n/a
28-Oct-06, 06:11 PM
I think that F1 novices should be allowed.I did novice F1 as many others have with no problem . I have driven one of the top F2 craft this year a few times and that was as fas as some of the mid field F1 craft. So I think a complete ban is unfair on both the people who want to race F1 and the people already in F1. What if we had some sort of mentoring scheme i.e take a new driver and their craft and give them some lessons on how to drive, how to maintain the machine etc? I would be happy to run such a program and have spoken to several other F1 drivers who are happy to help. As well as this, we could look at restricting the power of the craft by simply reducing the throtle movement, so that the craft has similar power to an F2.



Dan Newton

Don83000 - n/a
28-Oct-06, 07:01 PM
However you ice the cake it was those that matter that said no so they must think that you are not up to the challenge as yet and are only trying to protect you and what would be your competitors and the public and to this end it must be deemed a good decision you can't always do everything in life that you want at the speed you wish to so it's a case of a little patience and maybe some day you will be let loose although I think with your ranting and raving attitude anytime may be more than soon enough. If you think the decision was wrong why not get it brought up the agm as you then have a captive audience and ask for it to be put out as a general vote from every club member although this has all been debated long and hard in the past so chances are the end result will remain the same.Having said this mentioning no names there is one certain person at the top that some of the council has pointed out has no backbone so maybe find this person and work on them and maybe the rules could change in your favour.

Philip Morris - n/a
28-Oct-06, 07:19 PM
If you had read my first view on this you would have seen my comments that comps had made its decision on the matter and that was that. And i stand by there decision. My replys have been polite and to the point not ranting and raving.

Philip Morris - n/a
28-Oct-06, 07:38 PM
Hi dan will you send me your e mail address cheers

slarman257@aol.com - n/a
28-Oct-06, 09:03 PM
I think with your ranting and raving attitude anytime may be more than soon enough.



Having said this mentioning no names there is one certain person at the top that some of the council has pointed out has no backbone so maybe find this person and work on them and maybe the rules could change in your favour.




Don, could you be any more childish and rude. people are entitled to their opinions and the right to air them, at no time during this thread at no time has anyone ranted or raved, all they have done is talk with passion about a subject they care about.



also the insurance is there to protect the driver and club from 3rd party claims it doesn't provide the driver with any other kind of cover, so why would the insurer care, unless someone injures a bystander or spectator. That is an issue of course contruction and spectator protection, something i feel the club takes very seriously and does very well. I have been on various high speed off-course excursions in my time and i have never once ended in a position to be a danger to the public. The logic of "my partner bought a hover and you let him use it in novices and he got hurt, its all your fault" listen to how that sounds! the only person responsible for getting in that craft and starting it is "yourself" the club has a responsibility to educate, inform and enable and if that means more novice races for F1 or split novice races then so be it, i don't see a problem with F1 novices as long as they are monitored and kept in check, as Dan T says they have to start somewhere if they are going to race F1. I for one will volunteer to mentor also if anyone needs.



Simon Larman

Don83000 - n/a
28-Oct-06, 09:55 PM
[quote=Don83000]
.



people are entitled to their opinions and the right to air them, ,

Your words,Yes people are entitled to their opinion so what you problem ?



also the insurance is there to protect the driver and club from 3rd party claims it doesn't provide the driver with any other kind of cover, so why would the insurer care,



Because when not if a big claim comes in that will be the end of the fun for the majority probably caused by the few.



"my partner bought a hover and you let him use it in novices and he got hurt, its all your fault" listen to how that sounds!



What are you babling on about and as a minority sport who realy cares anyway.



Simon Larman

Anne Scrimshaw - n/a
29-Oct-06, 02:01 PM
F = ma

In other words the heavier and the faster something is when it hits you, the more it hurts.



Therefore with this rule we are not just trying to protect the new F1 drivers but also the other novices in the race.



Anyone who does have any good suggestions – like Dan, can always mail them to the comps secretary, whose details are on the contacts page, where it can be looked at seriously.



Cheers

Anne

Carol Morris - n/a
29-Oct-06, 02:38 PM
1.3 Novice Drivers



0 If a Novice driver feels that they are competent, earlier than the specified number of

races above, they may approach the race director for early qualification. Early qualification is subject to the completion of the relevant marshalling duties and at the Race Directors discretion.

In addition they may also approach the Race Director for early qualification to Open, F1 and Fs races. http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif



Why does the Hovercraft Club of Great Britain have the above rule for Novice Drivers if there is such a hoo ha made when a newly Qualified Driver makes the same request???

kevinf - n/a
29-Oct-06, 04:05 PM
The most important part of that rule is

"at the Race Directors discretion"



The request was considered and declined. If the applicant was not happy with that decision, the rules have an appeals process by which the decision could be examined. It's a bit late for that now, follwing the public muck-raking that has taken place on this bulletin board.



The "hoo haa" hasn't come from the Hoverclub of Great Briatain

but from a small number of members who think that because they do not like a rule, it shouldn't apply to them or their mates.



These rules aren't new, nor are they an arbitrary decision on the part of just anyone. The no F1 novices rule was announced at the 2005 AGM for enactment in 2006 - no objections were made to these proposals so they came into effect for the 2006 race season. Any rule changes proposed by the Competitions Committee are ratified by the main Council.



The Competitions Committee isn't "them", it is "us" - a small number of dedicated members of this club willing to give their time to the sport they love and elected by YOU THE MEMBERS to do a job for YOU. If you don't like the job they do, vote with your feet and put yourself up for this thankless job. There are now at least six vacancies on the committee to be voted on at the next AGM - at least half of which are because of the issues in this thread.



Hope you are happy with yourselves

Philip Morris - n/a
29-Oct-06, 05:00 PM
Once again i refer to my origional statement comps made their decision and i stand by that. Could you please explain public muck racking. It has been a livley debate with a lot of input. Are you refering to the comment about a certain member of comps. As in any Amateur sport without the dedication of a few the sport would cease to be. and all from top to bottom are to be thanked for the time and effort they put in. at no point do i think anybody would argue with that. As i see it this thread should end now before it starts to get personal best regards to all

M Neale - n/a
29-Oct-06, 09:07 PM
Here, Here

Gayle Spedding - n/a
30-Oct-06, 09:22 AM
Race Director's discretion? Well, fortunately for all of you who have such strong opinions the position is now vacant, so I fully expect to see an unprecedented number of nominations to take up the role! Oh but of course, it's easy to to sit and moan from the side lines without taking any further proactive action. My resignation has nothing to do with this thread, I simply feel that after four years as Chief Marshal and five as Race Director I've done my fair share, I can't make a difference anymore and it's time for someone else to try. I am also fed up of all the negative criticism that the Competitions Committee get. The people who stand on the committee are voted there by the HCGB - that's you by the way. And there seems to be a popular misconception that those 12 people sit at meetings to make up rules that make racing difficult, expensive and 'un-fun' for all that take part. As Kevin said, there are now a number of vacancies on Comps, so if you really feel that you can run the race series better, stand up and be counted - I'll be happy to give you my vote at the AGM.

keith rhodes - n/a
4-Nov-06, 12:21 PM
blimey !! so many people getting stressed.

may i comment with no disrespect to phil morris as follows

1) on the one hand phil (and i) would have a quieter race in F1 than i find in the very busy 503 class where there is substantial "contact"<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Quote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">

</td></tr></table>

2) on the other hand phil has not yet raced outside novice in his 503 and i for one found it quite different.

i do think the further period of gaining experience will benifit me even though like phil i have an obvious wheight disadvantage.



phil and i raced against each other in novices and if we had swapped craft phil may have beaten me as my ex lee willars tea tray is very quick.his craft is a little heavier.

i thought i would go straight into F1 until i actually started racing and im glad now this wasnt allowed.

that said the F1 field looks poor and would benefit from more participants. Even if they are not competing for the lead they may well have a good race amongst themselves at the back of the field. maybe if sellers of second hand f1 craft sold them on to us up and coming members AND did some mentoring this would help with safety and confidence for all concerned.id be delighted if a seller offered that to me.

i think that if F1 drivers could demonstrate that they will support relative novices moving into F1 and tolerate rather than berate errors more of us may consider going that way.

anyway- see you at the back of the grid in 503 phil - im off now to put some body armour in my own santa bag !



seasons greetings

keith rhodes

M Neale - n/a
4-Nov-06, 12:27 PM
Hi Phil.



Thanks for the reply. I currently race in F1 and do support anyone coming in to the Formula. I have already offered Phil my services as a mentor for when he finally does become an F1 driver to which he has accepted. It would also be nice to see yourself in F1 in the future. I am sure any F1 driver would offer the services as a mentor my self included to you and any other river looking to enter F1. Even if the club does not officially go down the "mentor" route I think it would be a good idea for any experienced driver in any formula to take a new member under there wing and give then a helping hand.



More fun later



Baz

Philip Morris - n/a
5-Nov-06, 05:21 PM
Hi keith thanks for your comments very much appreciated weight may not be an issue next year as i intend from january to stop eating and only drink water I am giving some thought to your idea and will be in touch soon hope the leg is all good say hello to tris see you soon mate. phil