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andymum - n/a
3-Oct-08, 05:50 PM
Mca coding HELPPPPPP



Can anyone tell me why it is impossible to get mca coding to run a hovercraft rental buieness when the fuel setup is the same as a dive rib,



both hovercraft hov pod and a dive rib have fuel tanks under the seat but ribs can be coded for buisness but hovercraft cant????????



Any and all advice most welcome even more so if you have a solution to this problem





cheers

jar2 - n/a
3-Oct-08, 06:23 PM
I have no direct experience of this (or a solution http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_confused.gif ) but I would have thought that HovPod themselves could provide you with a certificate specifying compliance with the HSC 2000 Code which you could then use to get a safety certificate from the MCA? It may be that HovPod already have class type approval in which case it should just be a formality. Of course, if it doesn't comply with the HSC or DSC/BHSR requirements then you are scr**wed http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_eek.gif

andymum - n/a
3-Oct-08, 06:40 PM
The only solution offered by the manufacture is to run as a club,

But have been told by mca that under the hovercraft act 1968 they have control over coding on water and land for these craft if used for reward and such have to be coded.



cheers

hovmart - n/a
3-Oct-08, 08:12 PM
get back on hovpods case you paid enought let them sort it

andymum - n/a
3-Oct-08, 08:15 PM
To be honest they have had there money the club solution is there answer and that is there response????

hovmart - n/a
3-Oct-08, 08:20 PM
its not good leaving you to sort it out

jar2 - n/a
3-Oct-08, 08:22 PM
It depends what they told you when you bought the craft - I wouldn't think that the "club" option will wash with an insurance company as it would probably be seen as an attempt to circumvent safety legislation.

andymum - n/a
3-Oct-08, 08:23 PM
I agree as we purchased 2 craft for the purpose of a buisness that we have had to put on hold for a year. We are just trying to find a way of fighting the mca system.

andymum - n/a
3-Oct-08, 08:25 PM
It was made very clear what we wanted these craft for and they said they are the craft for our buisness

Jonathan - n/a
7-Oct-08, 04:48 PM
It was made very clear what we wanted these craft for and they said they are the craft for our buisness


Then land on them with both feet!

Either they know how to solve your problems, Or they sold you the craft under false pretences.

If the former they have an obligation to help.

If the latter, they owe you a total refund and all of your costs/losses incurred to date.



If it is the latter, a decent letter from a solicitor will have them quivering in their boots. Even BIG companies find the legal system (especially attending court) expensive, it often cripples or destroys smaller firms, that's why most settle out of court.



Good Luck!

andymum - n/a
7-Oct-08, 06:47 PM
yer there solution was to turn buisness into a club so we said we would seek legal advice and they stopped talking to us then email asking for our solisetors letter as they were then ready for it,

wiggy - n/a
7-Oct-08, 07:07 PM
out of interest, whats the nature of the business (if you can disclose)... http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_wink.gif

Kevin Eastwood - n/a
7-Oct-08, 07:18 PM
Wiggy... read the first post!!! there is a very big clue!!!!



I'll give you a hint "hovercraft rental" http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_rolleyes.gif

andymum - n/a
7-Oct-08, 09:46 PM
Whilst there is a very strong case for misrepresentation, under UK law the consumer has a duty to mitigate their own losses- so if the craft has a second hand value of 8k and was purchased for 11k we would only be able to claim for 3k. The legal advice is "only a fool would go to court for 3k as the costs of pursuing it would be far greater".

ChrisC - n/a
8-Oct-08, 10:26 AM
The small claims court is the place to pursue 3000. No legal fees if you conduct your own case. Conversely Money Claims on Line is easy unless they fight the claim when it will revert to the courts nearest the Defendant

hovmart - n/a
10-Oct-08, 08:26 AM
have you managed to sell them for 8k yet http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_redface.gif

andymum - n/a
10-Oct-08, 04:18 PM
no not yet

Jonathan - n/a
11-Oct-08, 01:49 AM
Whilst there is a very strong case for misrepresentation, under UK law the consumer has a duty to mitigate their own losses- so if the craft has a second hand value of 8k and was purchased for 11k we would only be able to claim for 3k. The legal advice is "only a fool would go to court for 3k as the costs of pursuing it would be far greater".




Solicitors say this because they don't want to take on the job. Your opponent is relying on you backing down. YOU can do it yourself, and once served most buisnesses pay up as they don't want to send a solicitor themselves.



I have taken a company to small claims court because I had been 'cheated' and couldn't let the company get away with it as a matter of principle. The company did (to my surprise) fight it, only to get taken apart by the magistrate for their conduct... It was a stressful run-up, but, not only did I get back my money (with interest), but more importantly I got to see the company boss eat crow and admit he was wrong.

Possibly most important is that the matter is no longer eating away me!



I have since found that magistrates are more likely to take the side of the 'little guy' in these cases.



I believe that only a fool would let someone get away with thousands of his money without a BIG fight.

keith rhodes - n/a
11-Oct-08, 04:11 PM
may i comment please.

if the contract made between you and the vendor has no written evedence to support your claim that they have misled you you will fail to convince the judge in chambers on a matter of probability that such advise was part of the contract between you.



moneyclaim.gov.uk is as the other correspondent commented easy to do- IF YOU ARE ENTIRELY IN THE RIGHT!( and that is not think you are but know you are- two entirley different things!)

i take between 6 and 10 late paying customers through this process every year ( usually builders)and with respect to all i consider myself to be conversant with the process.



if you do not have specific proof that your claim is founded on written contractural agreed consultation and advice the judge in chambers will find for the defendant.

you then run the risk of costs being awarded against you for the other side as well as losing your application fees. if they have representation they will be entitled to repayment of this as well as the defendants time off work to attend the hearing.



before you rush in be sure of your ground.

playing devils advocate - if i were hovpod ( the defendant here?) my terms and conditions would specifically exclude liability for any advise given on a good will only basis.



go back to the original offer and acceptance made between the two parties to the agreement and see what exactly IS the offer you entered into. if im honest and blunt with you , id say you will not succeed as i doubt you will find anything in their offer that leaves them liable for such advice - given in good faith or otherwise.



best of luck anyway.

Anthony Cleaver - n/a
11-Oct-08, 07:18 PM
Hello all,

I work with Andy and it was me who decided not to chase Hov Pod through the courts- despite having significant evidence to show misrepresentation of their product. I'm not happy about giving up a fight but there are other factors that must be considered and I can't allow myself to become distracted from my "real" job.



It is worth noting that Hov Pod aren't the only manufacturers to claim their craft are suitable for commercial/rental applications when in fact, they are not- if it can't get a code, you can't earn money with it.



Can anyone tell me why no one seems to have built a 2, 3 or 4 seater craft that is codeable? Is it impossible? Are the MCA regs over the top? Anyone else spoken to MCA about codes?



Thanks for your comments so far,



Kind regards.

bufo - n/a
11-Oct-08, 07:50 PM
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Quote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Can anyone tell me why no one seems to have built a 2, 3 or 4 seater craft that is codeable? Is it impossible? Are the MCA regs over the top? Anyone else spoken to MCA about codes?
</td></tr></table>



Here is the anwser i think...



<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Quote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
DIRECTIVE 2003/44/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL

of 16 June 2003

amending Directive 94/25/EC on the approximation of the laws, regulations and administrative

provisions of the Member States relating to recreation craft

(Text with EEA relevance)





Article 1

Directive 94/25/EC is hereby amended as follows:

......

2. The following shall be excluded from the scope of this Directive:

.....

(x) air cushion vehicles;
</td></tr></table>



Solution is the rental bussines under clubs name.

andymum - n/a
11-Oct-08, 08:02 PM
Thanks for that info Bufo, But isn't the fact that you are still taking money/getting reward/gain which which is illegal without the craft being coded.



I would also like to say a big thankyou to everyone who has joined this debate so far,and for all your advice, hopefully with this form of debate a solution might be found and if enough get together something might change.



Please lets keep this debate going and maybe we might get a response from someone who can answer these questions and maybe do something about it.



cheers to all

bufo - n/a
12-Oct-08, 05:45 AM
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Quote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Thanks for that info Bufo, But isn't the fact that you are still taking money/getting reward/gain which which is illegal without the craft being coded.
</td></tr></table>



Thats how it is...



with other words, hovercraft manufacture and hovercraft sales is kind of illegal business in our country and Europe as well (small hovercrafts)



Also registration is almoast impossible, I have 2 crafts now, and no craft is insured and no craft registrated. When I come to insurance company, they do not eaven know what hovercraft is. When they stop me with hover on land and water, police do not know how to act against me... it is funy somehow...



I realy do not know why hovercraft is such a big problem? It is a vehicle...isn't it?



When you rent hovercraft under the club, you need no papers for the craft, only you should take care that each person that goes on hovercraft sign you a paper - RIDE AT OWN RISK, so in case of crash can not sue you.

keith rhodes - n/a
12-Oct-08, 07:55 AM
i really must take my craft through a local speed camera to see if it makes the news http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_smile.gif - of course without a reg plate i could not be traced http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_twisted.gif - even if they read my race number they would decide not to procecute on the basis im not that fast http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif

chrismdaly - n/a
13-Oct-08, 07:31 PM
They could always prosecute you for swimming..............oh that's only on race days!!!

andymum - n/a
13-Oct-08, 08:08 PM
Hello all can we stay on subject please

hovercraftrental - n/a
21-Oct-08, 11:07 AM
Hello Guys,



We are Hovercraftrental, the Commercial Company that operates passengers, hire, rental, corporate and so on in the UK.



I think it would be useful to explain the MCA Certification system to you as there seems to be a few misunderstandings.



Fistly the MCA do not " BASIC SAFETY CODE" a hovercraft. They are Air Cushion Vehicles and come under the DYNAMICALLY SUPPORTED CRAFT CERTIFICATION. The similarity between a rib and hovercraft doesnt come into the equation at all. They come under their own special regs.



Secondly the craft has to comply to a standard of manufacture recognised by the MCA. In the past there have been Civil Aviation Construction Certificates and now there is the HSC 2006.

In order to comply with any of these , it would be impossible for a small craft built since say 1995 to meet the regulations. Firewalls between engine,tank, auto fire safety sytems, materials used, fuel type and fuel tank constuction and so on. The list is endless and then you need more.



Then you need to get the pilot through a certification.

Our pilots are type approved, and MCA tested through examination and practical flight testing. They hold BMLs specific to Passenger carrying in DSC ACV



Then you require Safety documents through survey, and compliance to the new regulations.



THEN you can apply for an operators permit for a specific area to carry passengers when you have local permissions, conservation documents, health and safety docs and so on.



Well thats a basic outline into the UK System and the EU is the same as they use the MCA DSC Class 6.



We have done it all and now operate for passengers on the North Wales Coast and in a turn of fate, are returning the service back to Rhyl in 2009 some 47 years later. We also operate at events all over the place. If you need further regulatory info, call or contact me via the webpage www.hovercraftrental.co.uk



Geraint