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sixpackpert - n/a
16-Oct-08, 06:08 PM
Okay, following on from the discussion about the magazine and the website in the cruising forum (hovercraft.org.uk/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=2320&start=0&S=6fba413dfa9fb0e1666351905b8b4619) I thought we could use this thread for chewing over some ideas.



Here's some ideas:



Ability to renew membership on-line - Takes the work off of member services by automating the process. This may mean a few changes to the membership options but I think it will simplify it no end.



Club member only sections of the forum such as technical libraries, back issues of magazines, new magazines published on line (as well as on paper), club documents, cruising launch sites, a member map showing where all the members of the club are, tips and fixes taken from useful threads etc etc.



By making some sections of the forums for members only it becomes a selling tool for gaining new member. If we can show potential new members that if they join the club they get access to technical info, launch sites etc then we can hopefully gain new members. In essence we are adding value to the site and the club.



The use of blogs. This would help to make the magazine man's job easier as he can use sections of the blogs for articles in the magazine. It also is a good way for telling your tales of crafting.



On-line shop. This could be two-fold. For non-members you can buy DVD's, mugs, pens etc. Members can get access to a members only section of the shop for buying race and cruising licences.



I joined the L200 club (I know I know, http://www.jonrb.com/emoticons/nerd.gif). You can sign up and view 2 or 3 forums. You can pay a one off membership fee that then gives you full access to all the forums (tips and tricks, green laning routes, technical library etc etc), it was certainly worth the membership fee IMHO. I cannot see why the same principal cannot be applied to our club.



I have just listed a few ideas above in the hope that they start a good brainstorming session.



Lets see what you guys think...

jar2 - n/a
16-Oct-08, 08:30 PM
How about:

<ul type="square">
Live video/commentary feeds from race meetings (with results)
Member Picture albums viewable by everyone
Council/committee minutes/agendas so that everyone knows what's going on http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_eek.gif
e-review version of mag - a collection of interesting hover-related stuff found on the Internet that month (videos, articles, news reports, etc)
[/list]

hectorshouse46 - n/a
17-Oct-08, 05:29 PM
Good stuff, like all the above, especially the blog idea.



How to make it happen if support is strong enough?



Cheers



Steve

Ian Brooks - n/a
17-Oct-08, 06:00 PM
Makes a lot of sense to me... we should move forwards as soon as possible!

Ian

hover t - n/a
17-Oct-08, 06:31 PM
It sounds like a great idea , bring it on http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif



Trevhttp://www.smiliegenerator.de/s31/smilies-21813.png

Keith Oakley - n/a
17-Oct-08, 07:52 PM
Some great ideas which will drag the Hoverclub into the new world of communications created by the broadband internet. It should both reduce the admin workload on unpaid voluntary officials and vastly improve the services enjoyed by members, making membership far more worthwhile.



When I did my stint as magazine editor nearly 40 years ago some members didn't even have a phone let alone the internet and mobiles. The magazine was the only feasible way of communicating with the membership at large. Despite Anita's valiant efforts at typing on greased paper and my getting covered in ink from the Gstetner duplicator we had the same problems getting material, meeting event deadlines, and reproducing pics as todays editors. Yet if you look back at the 400 odd issues in my loft they remain the only real record of what went on and many of todays 'latest ideas' are to be found in 20 year old articles.



But whats the point of a mag if the event can be broadcast live on the internet as I did from Sweden? Well sometimes people say too much (and maybe later wished they hadn't) on the net, yet conversely say too little in the mag. Maybe the role for the net is the realtime, the latest news, whilst the mag becomes a more reflective, thought through, repository of record and knowledge. Something to read curled up in front of the fire thinking through a new idea, not a quick oneliner thrown out from work at lunchtime.



So as a strong proponent of both media I think there is a role for both and with new technology they can merge as Jon and John have suggested. If we use modern scanning technology on the old mags and make them available to members then that repository of info becomes widely accessible. If we make new mags also available online to members then you can get the pics in colour, and probably find that interesting half remembered article from 6 months ago via a 'google' facility rather than scrabbling around in the loft.



At a stroke membership of the HCGB becomes more attractive. There are many people in the 'hovercraft community' that aren't members because they believe the club offers little for non racing craft owners. The reawakening of enthusiasm for cruising, aided by new event formats and craft designs, dispels that myth but making far more information available to members is a very significant benefit.



Encouraged by the positive feedback I got for the 'Live Report' service from the Worlds in Sweden I've been looking at feeding over the internet from events live video, audio commentary, a gps based live aerial view of the racing and race results. It's all possible but the challenge is to use some of the latest technology to do it affordably without the staff numbers, and high cost kit the BBC use. Live feeds is one of my two R&D themes for this winter, the other is fan noise reduction.



Live feeds will be my contribution to the brave and exciting new world Jon & John have described. I know people are working hard on other pieces of the jigsaw. We should all give them our support and offer to help if we can.



Keith Oakley

noursbabe - n/a
17-Oct-08, 09:50 PM
Okay, following on from the discussion about the magazine and the website in the cruising forum (hovercraft.org.uk/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=2320&start=0&S=6fba413dfa9fb0e1666351905b8b4619) I thought we could use this thread for chewing over some ideas.



Here's some ideas:



Ability to renew membership on-line - Takes the work off of member services by automating the process.


now that was on my christmas wish list so that would be a good idea save the 20 hour drive over there too.

GavinParson - n/a
18-Oct-08, 10:55 PM
If we make new mags also available online to members then you can get the pics in colour, and probably find that interesting half remembered article from 6 months ago via a 'google' facility rather than scrabbling around in the loft.



At a stroke membership of the HCGB becomes more attractive. There are many people in the 'hovercraft community' that aren't members because they believe the club offers little for non racing craft owners. The reawakening of enthusiasm for cruising, aided by new event formats and craft designs, dispels that myth but making far more information available to members is a very significant benefit.








That might be rather overstating things Keith. Although I endorse the idea of an electronic magazine (oops, I risk being slated again for "keep going on about it"), I don't see it being an attraction for new members or enough of an incentive for past members to re-join.

I think it's a great option for current members but member benefits need to be more than that.



For non-racers, if they opt for an electronic magazine or just rely on reading an online blog for peoples cruising adventures, then there's no overhead so they might as well have free membership as it's purely a social network.

hovmart - n/a
19-Oct-08, 10:01 AM
I realy think the club should not be held back just because some people do not have broad band, if its that much of a problem then may be they need to move to a better area http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_confused.gif

jar2 - n/a
19-Oct-08, 10:30 AM
OK Gavin, to turn the question back - what do you think that member benefits should be? What things would persuade you to re-join the club?



The web site improvements detailed above would (IMHO) make the club much more attractive to new members because we would be displaying our "heritage" in the form of old magazines/technical documents, showing off our current activities in the form of racing webcasts and blogs/pictures/etc in addition to improving communication between members.



There would be a cost involved in providing the above facilities (web server space, software, etc - not including the huge amount of "free" labour donated by club members) so why should non-members (who make no contribution to these costs) get full access?

GavinParson - n/a
19-Oct-08, 04:23 PM
I can't think of any member benefits that would attract me any more. Don't forget I've been there, seen it done in every aspect.

I've set up websites, run forums and the cost is so minimal it's not worth trying to share it with 500 members. I'm not saying that I know what the club is currently paying but the web facilities alone are not enough to make a club.



The small membership fee only really covers the cost of the magazine, stationery costs and the auditor so any other costs are borne by the national inland race series as cruising events are self funding and most if not all are now non club events for the reasons we all endorse.



I'm a member of a small local club and pay 80 per year but we get the monthly use of a facility (biggest cost), numerous social events, holidays etc etc. And newsletters are send electronically. Great, something tangible for my money.



The current calendar of self funded unofficial hovercraft cruises seems to be working well with organisers and participants communicating almost entirely via the web. So what else is needed? Anything?

Possibly only a cohesive guidance mechanism for newcomers.



The club is paranoid about being liable for the actions of it's members. The assumed responsibility for craft under 1000Kg is like a Damoclean sword and a third party fatality would close it down.



So what's happened to the branches? Potentially independant local groups would be preferable to a national club, inviting others from around the country to their events through a central forum.

In larger countries like the USA and Australia, due to the scale of the countries, this is the case and works well with strong localised groups meeting frequently.



I don't wish the club ill, I just don't think it's a benefit for cruisers.

JOSH -D - n/a
20-Oct-08, 10:05 AM
why don't we make an online magasign and a normal one on paper and make it optional for club members to recive the magasign via e-mail or in the post and that way it will reduce postage costs and for the members whom work a lot and a rairly at home can be kept in touch. it would take some time to get it perfect but this means that the edditors can just post it on the forum and then send less coppies to members at home.

we can make a special link to the online magasigns?

sixpackpert - n/a
20-Oct-08, 10:08 AM
why don't we make an online magasign and a normal one on paper and make it optional for club members to recive the magasign via e-mail or in the post and that way it will reduce postage costs and for the members whom work a lot and a rairly at home can be kept in touch. it would take some time to get it perfect but this means that the edditors can just post it on the forum and then send less coppies to members at home.

we can make a special link to the online magasigns?




Yep easily done.

Sandra Barlow - n/a
20-Oct-08, 10:44 AM
Yep! that would save me having to move http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif



Sorry Martin, I will have to decline your offer.....but thank's anyway http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_twisted.gif

Jeremy - n/a
20-Oct-08, 06:29 PM
<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText">Quote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
I don't wish the club ill, I just don't think it's a benefit for cruisers.
</td></tr></table>



I'm going to risk putting my head above the parapet in here again, by adding my three'hapence worth, as the point Gavin has made above is important.



First some background to put my views into perspective. I built my first craft as a school project, sponsored by the Daily Express, back in 1969. I joined the HCGB back in the mid-1970's when I built a plywood twin-engined craft, before I read the "Constructors Guide".............



After many years away from hovercraft, my interest was reawakened a few years ago, when I started (very slowly.....) designing a robust cruising craft. I rejoined the HCGB about three or four years ago, primarily as I thought it'd be a useful and beneficial way to learn and also share knowledge.



I didn't bother to renew my membership a year or two ago, for two reasons:



Firstly, the HCGB seemed intent on becoming a rule-making body, and were never going to sanction my aircraft propeller driven craft as being "safe". Daft rules assuming that certified propellers were in the habit of shedding blades, despite evidence to the contrary, were going to be imposed on my craft (which has got adequate guarding designed in).



Secondly, the HCGB offered little that interested me. I am not even vaguely interested in racing, all I want is to build and operate a quiet, safe, fuel-efficient cruising craft.



So, on a more positive note, what would attract me back to rejoin the club?



- A greater focus on cruising craft, particularly build projects and support for those trying to negotiate launch and cruising sites.



- A more inclusive and accepting attitude from the minority of members who delight in trying to ridicule and insult anyone who has the temerity to suggest anything novel (the reason I don't post on here often).



- A members-only "library" of really useful and up to date design data, including less-popular topics, like propeller propulsion tips.



- Less emphasis on creating "rules" for non-racing craft and more emphasis on providing flexible guidance on good practice (it's worth considering that if the club makes rules, there is an accident and the rules are found to be lacking, then the club may be liable. This may not be the case if the club just provides guidance).



- Assistance with some of the thorny issues surrounding cruising craft operation, like MCA registration, insurance etc.



I apologise in advance if some of the above are already being done, if they are then I'm unaware of them.



Jeremy

GavinParson - n/a
20-Oct-08, 06:57 PM
Here's an idea. A club financed engine!



After reading Keiths post about B&S engines in the Classified section, I was thinking about the "perfect engine" being the hovercraft owners holy grail.

How about the club developing a 50hp four stroke engine, maybe based on the modded Briggs & Stratton, getting it reliable and making it available to club members at a reasonable price.

Then have a racing formula using it in standard form without any further modification allowed.



So, the membership pays for the development of the engine and eventually for a limited run of parts, perhaps funded over a period of years.

Manufacturers could promote their craft fitted with the engine, possibly they could contribute to its development as they will benefit from it in the long run.

Were it successful and reliable, people could and should aim to continue using if for many years, resisting the urge to make it more powerful and unnecessarily modify it.

Bearing in mind that the 503 has been in use for over 20 years then the lifetime of an engine of similar power but better economy and ready availability of parts through the club should be longer.



Just a thought.... And before everyone rushes in and says it will be too expensive, how many thousands of have people spent on buying and modifying unsuitable engines over the years. Surely investing in the "perfect" engine will have superb long term cost savings.

sixpackpert - n/a
20-Oct-08, 07:01 PM
- A greater focus on cruising craft, particularly build projects and support for those trying to negotiate launch and cruising sites. - Being worked on as we speak



- A more inclusive and accepting attitude from the minority of members who delight in trying to ridicule and insult anyone who has the temerity to suggest anything novel (the reason I don't post on here often). - A trait of forums worldwide I'm afraid. It's a real art to be able to get across certain emotions on a board, even with the use of emoticons. http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif



- A members-only "library" of really useful and up to date design data, including less-popular topics, like propeller propulsion tips. - Easily done and has been discussed.



- Less emphasis on creating "rules" for non-racing craft and more emphasis on providing flexible guidance on good practice (it's worth considering that if the club makes rules, there is an accident and the rules are found to be lacking, then the club may be liable. This may not be the case if the club just provides guidance). - Again, being worked at the mo.



- Assistance with some of the thorny issues surrounding cruising craft operation, like MCA registration, insurance etc. - Again again, being worked on at the mo.








Good to hear from you again Jeremy. Thanks for the input, much appreciated. I have answered your suggestions in bold. I hope this makes you feel a bit more inclined to come back and join us. http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif

nickyd - n/a
20-Oct-08, 07:16 PM
Some good points on here. There also seems to be a strong feeling that the club does not encourage cruising craft.



I for one have never been that interested in cruising and so never bothered to actually find out what it is all about. Over the last couple of years though I have found out more and it does seem more appealing.



I want to link this thread to another on the cruising forum that I posted on asking for a report on the Treasure Hunt. Some reaction to this was that the mag is a waste of time so there is no point writing an article. You can see where I am going here!!



I know the mag is not the be all and end all of communication for club members, far from it, but if you take all the ideas on this thread there are a fair few articles that can be written. Jeremy has come up with some very good points. If articles were written, the word of cruising would be spread to the likes of me who know not much about it.



Although props may not be favoured by the club, I see no reason why a piece on props could not be included in the mag. This will get people thinking and open up peoples minds to the use of them in hovercraft. Jeremy's other points could easily be put in the mag.



Also, Gavin has had an idea about developing an engine. Yes it would be timely and expensive, but I'm sure there are people out there who think it would be a great idea. Stick it in the mag and see what happens.



I know this sounds like a desparate bid to get articles for the mag, but the more input I get the bigger the magazine becomes and the more depth it has. None of which can be a bad thing can it?



Anyway, I got to go and finish the current one, only a day late on my first one!!



Nice to see some good ideas coming forward. Now we just need the volunteers to get them actioned.....!



Nick

peterd51 - n/a
20-Oct-08, 07:39 PM
Hi,




[quote=Jeremy]


- A more inclusive and accepting attitude from the minority of members who delight in trying to ridicule and insult anyone who has the temerity to suggest anything novel (the reason I don't post on here often). - A trait of forums worldwide I'm afraid. It's a real art to be able to get across certain emotions on a board, even with the use of emoticons. http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif






well I know that a lot of forums that attract young men, like car forums, etc, are hostile places. But I always thought that the great thing about this forum was in the number of 'mature' members who knew what they were talking about...been around the sport for years, etc.



There are great forums out there, mig-welding.co.uk, for instance where anyone no matter what their current ability is welcomed and encouraged. I've been a member there for just on a year and although I've got things wrong from time to time I've been shown the way forward without being left thinking I've just been run over by a tank.



New idea are welcomed there, kicked around by experts and something workable comes out of it.



New idea here seem to get a standard response along the lines of 'it doesn't work and breaks the rules'.



I've been hanging around here for over a year but I don't post much. As stated in previous messages in this thread it seems to me that there's not much here for someone who wants to start from no-where, build a craft and build up their knowledge and start using hovercraft for simply 'cruising'.



The basic attitude seems to be based on 'buy one ready made for several hundred (or even thousands) of pounds'. Then cruise on club events obeying dozens of what some people think are very petty rules.



Local clubs would be the way forward IMO, where new techniques and new systems can be tried. Much like it was in the 60's and 70's before the 'rules' came into being.



Yes, I can see that things are changing but it needs to be radical change IMO.



I like the idea of commissioning an engine. Make it light enough and it'd be of interest to para-gliders, go-kart builders, etc. Not that it'd sell in massive numbers but I reckon it'd sell for years, as stated above.



Regards

Peter

Jeremy - n/a
20-Oct-08, 08:05 PM
I'm heartened to see such a positive response and very pleased to find out that some of the things on my list seem to be in hand.



I've always been keen to contribute where I can, so rather than sit on the side and just post critical comment perhaps it'd be best if I rejoined the club and looked to see how I might put something back.



I think the "making up rules" thing is a bit of a national trait, not something unique to the HCGB. As some will know, I've been pretty active in the flying/microlighting world for a few years and I've watched the microlight association turn from a mutual support club into a rule making body that is tougher than the government when it comes to enforcing regulations,



Obviously all hovercraft need to be as safe as we can reasonably make them, but the club would be, in my view, best placed to act as an advice body for those building and operating cruising craft, not a regulator. I would guess that operating competence is far, far, more of a safety concern than most structural issues, so effort put in to things like driver skills training, seamanship skills etc would be more likely to enhance overall safety and be a way that the club could encourage new cruising members. The RYA have gone from a minority sport support association to the countries most recognised sport seamanship training organisation, and increased their membership by a few orders of magnitude, by offering training and guidance that has been of real value to it's members.



The HCGB has a great reservoir of people with good skills, plus it has a wealth of hard won experience. Finding a way to pass that on to newcomers effectively and without making them feel belittled would be extremely worthwhile.



Meanwhile, I'm sure that there are others who read this forum, may have some useful ideas, but have not plucked up courage to contribute them. Perhaps the positive tone of this thread might encourage some of them to come forward, too.



Jeremy

hovmart - n/a
20-Oct-08, 08:45 PM
For the attention of Gavin http://www.weber-motor.com/en/products/mpe-750/naturally-asp (http://www.weber-motor.com/en/products/mpe-750/naturally-aspirated-engine/index.html) irated-engine/index.html

Ian Brooks - n/a
20-Oct-08, 09:51 PM
Hi



We recognise much of what has been said here by Jeremy and Peter. The Recreational Committee are actively working on such things as "rules" and busy turning them into "guidance" for just the reasons Jeremy mentioned - liability for one, but just as important is that the Members told us what they wanted, and it's not "rules". There is a lot done, much of it just needs to be ratified in Council.



The key principle we are applying is to devolve responsibility to the lowest reasonable level and insure for the risk at that level - ie, it's not for the organiser to say whether a particular craft is safe for a given set of conditions or not - it's up to the Pilot to know that, and to insure his craft accordingly. (Always provided that the pilot is an experienced adult, novices & kids are different).



We have seen much more cruising activity this year, and I do believe it's because there has been more emphasis placed on personal responsibility, not forgetting that people are just getting out there and having fun.



Interestingly, we are seeing quieter & more capable craft being developed - we are seeing craft regularly covering up to 100 miles in a day - unheard of a few years back. I look forward to seeing details of Jeremy's craft! (BTW - the use of propellers is now accepted, and there should be no problems for commercially available units. Ironically I've gone from a ducted prop to a ducted fan recently!)



Cheers,

Ian

ChrisSearle - n/a
20-Oct-08, 10:29 PM
The magazine (and an eventual member only section of the website) is an important benefit to membership. But…HCGB members who have a craft will wish to use it. Racers have a good calendar of HCGB events to attend and so did the cruisers a few seasons ago.

Those wishing to organise a cruising event now has a choice, the organiser can adhere to HCGB guidance and in return receive a supporting infrastructure as the need dictates or alternatively the organiser can go it alone and advertise their event via a social network, usually the forum. This year has witnessed a massive shift to the latter. From events advertised in the cruising forum only the River Severn has been a HCGB event. This is good for the strength of cruising but adversely it may have lessened the need for HCGB membership. As stated by Ian there is a transition from old regulation to new event guidance. During this transition period many organisers have preferred to go it alone. I think that it will now be difficult to entice them back under the auspices of the HCGB for small events. Those that have run them have to date been very capable in what they have achieved (and I must add that I have thoroughly enjoyed attending many of them).

The future? I’d like to see the HCGB host more large cruising events for members only. The Treasure Hunt formula has proved very successful and can hopefully be adopted elsewhere. It just needs another suitable venue and volunteers. Perhaps there are other ideas for competition or objective cruising that is probably too bigger task for an individual to organise but could be realised with HCGB support.



Chris.

hover t - n/a
20-Oct-08, 10:59 PM
The development of a reliable 50hp B&S style engine would certainly be a great way to move the sport/hobby forward



Personally I would like to see a descent set of plans to build a 4 seater craft offered by the club, Built from foam f/glass and capable of coping with roughish sea conditions, something that would actually work well and look good after spending endless hours working on the project



If the club was a private business competing in the open market today I reckon it would have gone down by now as the time it takes to make a decision on any changes within the clubs structure seems to take for ever plus some of our club Officials work really hard on club stuff only to be left hanging on waiting for a decision



The web site is the most important bit of kit this club has for attracting new members

Its the FRONT Door to the club for millions of people around the world who want to see what its all about, in its present format there is not really a lot to look at, all the good repair threads etc get lost in the site so 6 months down the road the same questions get asked



How did I get into hovercraft? I got into computers about 8 years ago found this web site ,

I checked the site regular and read the boards, after a few years I had convinced myself i needed a new pastime and started looking for a 5 seater the rest is history



So is the website important,you bet it is I would not have come into contact with anyone in our club if it was not for the HCGB web site



A swift decision from the prime ministers cabinet would be welcomed throughout the club http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif



Trev

http://korn666r.free.fr/photos/momie.gif

noursbabe - n/a
21-Oct-08, 10:14 AM
I was going to open up a new thread with the title "Constuction Competition" then i thought, whats needed here is in addition to "Announcements-General-Cruising-Racing-Classified" forums is a section for CONSTRUCTION forum .I know there are books & dvds for sale on how too, but the info in them has been revealed times over in various emails ,and on this forum and every time someone new comes along for info the same questions repeat themselves and for any newcommer its nearly impossible to gather enough info to find out what he or she is letting him or her self in for and how to go about building and working out the technical calculations ect.

So although the loss of sale of how too books and dvds would be lost (and thats not for shure ,as once they get to grips with the "construction forum" they may want some bed time reading)the fact that haveing membership gives them access to the buiding of a craft through the forum with backup from experts; it should give confidence to more than one to join.

My main idea behind this was to have a "Competiton" to keep our brains working through winter and together come up with plans (on the constuction forum)for a perfect beginners craft designed with easily available materials at a reasonable cost and this done from now to febuary or whenever the AGM is; where the winning project could be released takeing in account safety,bouancy,noise-reduction,weight ect.

For some of us that might sound boaring so the second competition idea is "design a new future hovercraft" ,its been 100 yeras on the 11th may 2009 since the first flying machine and 50 years since the first hovercraft and it still looks the same is still noisy uses the same hover principal and still uses fossil fuels ; as some of you already know i have been working on a craft that emits no CO2 (although i have 3 engines )alot less noise and is structually very different. Keith Oaklys work on noise reduction should be taken into account especially (subsoidails) frequency noise reductions and Tony boards prepreg carbon honey comb fibers need to integrated and experts like Paul Fitzpatrick and his calculations need to be taken into account to come up with craft of the future ,these could also be prized with for example thier membership for the year as a reward at the AGM.

just the fact of putting a sipmle craft together through the forum will get people together some will always think thier idea is better than the other, but every input keeps the members (new or old) communicating.

As for the magazine i think we should live with our times and have a elecrtronic version available to members ,even if only to save on ink and paper the membersip cost could even be reduced(but not obligatory) again insighting younger and newer memberships,and so the club shows a more modern and ecologique face to the public and future members.

GavinParson - n/a
21-Oct-08, 10:35 AM
Perhaps there are other ideas for competition or objective cruising that is probably too bigger task for an individual to organise but could be realised with HCGB support.








Having organised many events under the auspices of the HCGB, it always lands on the individual or group of local enthusiasts to put on an event. There has never been any "HCGB support" for cruising events.

A member can find a potential race site and the competitions mechanism of the club WILL roll up an make it happen. Not so for cruising.

There is no "them" who will stride in and put on an event. If the cruising committee is planning to take on that role then I'm not aware and it will be interesting to see if it happens.

If not, that is fine, as the actual organiser remains in control.



If the HCGB had a cruising control vehicle or trailer (as it does for racing) with rope, pins, warning signs, signing on sheets, portable shower, generator, lights, barbecue, marquee, then that coupled with an event director and some marshalls would be a different matter.



If cruising events were all as large as Berkeley and happened 6 or more times a year, then the club would probably have to provide that infrastructure. Then of course all entrants would have to pay 60 entry fee to pay for it all. Would that be acceptable?



So then, aren't simple, independant events a better option? Thoughts everyone?

Ian Brooks - n/a
21-Oct-08, 07:59 PM
Hello



For me, a mix of events is ideal.



There should be local, informal gatherings such as Bryan, Ross Floyd and others have organised for say 2-4 craft. No fuss, a simple itinerary and people turn up and go, everyone responsible for themself in a atmosphere of mutual support.



Also good are bigger events such as the Treasure Hunt organised by "them". (I know who "they" are...)



The Committee can and will help to with events but they must be organised locally. What we CAN do is:



1 - Provide help with finance (you should not be out of pocket)

2 - Help with bureaucracy - mainly the Risk Assessment but also authorities if a more 'official' approach is needed (I will personally help with risk assessment. Probably have to come over and check the operating area thoroughly with my craft, such a chore but its for the sake of the Club... <GRIN>)

3 - Help with technical advise (how to run the event) as required.

4 - Help locate any facilities as needed



The Local people will need to:



1 - Find the site

2 - Negotiate with landlords, local authorities

3 - Arrange such things as loo's, food etc.

4 - Organise and run the event



We have an Organisers Guide in the works (with Council in draft form right now) which explains in English whats needed and why. No "rules", just lots of advice and help.



The main thing here is the finance, of course - the Treasure Hunt cost about 1200 to run, and thats a big risk for an individual to take with a family budget. This is of course a significant paperwork generator as the Club will need good budgets before hand and receipts etc afterwards.



But having said all this (and despite organising two events this year) my personal view is that most hovering should be local low-key events organised in 2's and 3's via the BB by members for members. Why wouldn't these be happening all round our coast each weekend in the Summer? Thats the vision.



Bryan has shown the way - decide when you want to go, and from where, put a notice on the BB, get 1 or 2 craft to join in and go for it! For launch sites, see the guides as they are published - oh, and share your sites via the mag & the "members area" using the guide template so we will all have varied and interesting places to go!



Cheers

Ian

bryan - n/a
21-Oct-08, 08:33 PM
Sorry Gavin I have to say no.Although the Treasure Hunt at Berkeley works well and Myself,Ian and John are always more than pleased to take the glory. Infact it involves most the memebers from the South West branch.These are the same few members who the week before put on a race meeting at Black Ditch Pond.Every other month we have lunch in a boozer and talk hover.The HCGB bring these people together otherwise we wouldn,t get anything sorted. The cruising side is only just again flexing its muscles with some very good members dragging it into the lime light. This year boasts more events than racing and still a top event to go.With more new events up our sleeve the question will be.a/ Why arn,t i a member b/Where can i get a cruiser from !!!!

We would all like to see you a member again Gav as you must be keen to spend so much time replying on the board!!!.

GavinParson - n/a
21-Oct-08, 10:11 PM
I think it's horrendous that a cruising event should cost 1200 to put on.

I've already voiced my appreciation for the Berkeley event and long may it continue, but surely it's an exception to the rule.



Blackwater, Leysdown, Long Reach and I assume Loch Fyne didn't require that level of finance.

I'm already looking at putting on an event next year and so far I can't see it costing that much. Surely the problem there is that it's an expensive site with no facilities, whereas ironically a site with proper camping, toilets and a slipway cost very little except perhaps a modest camping fee.



I agree that a mix of different size events is healthy but a well attended event surely doesn't necessitate a massive infrastructure and associated cost.

Mart366 - n/a
21-Oct-08, 11:06 PM
Okay, following on from the discussion about the magazine and the website in the cruising forum (hovercraft.org.uk/FUDforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=2320&start=0&S=6fba413dfa9fb0e1666351905b8b4619) I thought we could use this thread for chewing over some ideas.



Here's some ideas:



The use of blogs. This would help to make the magazine man's job easier as he can use sections of the blogs for articles in the magazine. It also is a good way for telling your tales of crafting.



Lets see what you guys think...






Good ideas Jon, apart from the above, http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_wink.gif



Ive yet to find a blog that that actually imparts usefull information http://hovercraft.org.uk/images/icons/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif



Mart

jar2 - n/a
21-Oct-08, 11:12 PM
1200 was a bargain - it must have worked out at less than 4 per person per night - I'm afraid that none of the camp sites I know come anywhere near that rate! The hidden cost was the work put in by the organisers - which is why it was such a good deal for participants.



The event costs depend totally upon the site and the number of participants - the organisers guide Ian mentioned will give sound advice to anyone who would is interested in arranging an event of any size from two craft upwards.



As a club, with our collective experience, we should aim to provide the very best guidance and assistance possible to anyone who wishes to participate in our sport - as individuals we can't easily do that.

GavinParson - n/a
22-Oct-08, 06:01 AM
1200 was a bargain




How do you figure that out John? Are you totalling up what every camper would have paid to stay overnight? If so, then that's irrelevant.



The accomodation element needs to be separate from other overheads.

If we cruise from Leysdown for example, there is no cost to use the launch site but campers pay about 5 per night to use the camping field.

Did you pay a site rental for Ardgarten? Or did people just pay for their individual accomodation?



Renting a whole field creates a situation akin to a National race meeting and is not ideal. It may be necessary at certain sites if there are absolutely no facilities but it is far preferable to operate where there is a good launch point with camping.

Cruising should be free apart from accomodation and fuel and there's no reason to create a massive overhead if it can be avoided.

I'm sure any event organiser wants to make it as easy for themselves as possible and keeping it simple will make it attractive for potential organisers.

Exactly what Kip did at Long Reach, a couple of phone calls and you have a slip and a camping area sorted out.

Cruise objectives can be planned simply with very little if any cost and even making it as involved as my "history by hovercraft" event a few years ago only cost a few sheets of paper and ink.



Giving an event an element of interest, such as the treasure hunt is clearly an incentive and attracts lots of entrants and looks like the best model for future events. Objective cruising is obviously the way forward. But if such events can be staged without creating a lot of hard work and cost, then more of them will happen.

Ian Brooks - n/a
22-Oct-08, 07:20 PM
The Treasure Hunt was free apart from accommodation and fuel... and insurance... and a trophy... and charcoal... and maps... marquee... cider... etc.



Anyway, twenty quid is virtually free... Most people will have paid 5x that in fuel just to get there and another 3x that in fuel for the craft!



Ian

bryan - n/a
22-Oct-08, 07:48 PM
Gav i agree.....on the subject of the treasure hunt there is no camp site. The hole infastructure has to be created from nothing.

Making a good will payment to the land owner who cuts the grass and clears the large amount of drift wood.Toilets for the campers even make shift showers this all adds up. Then we have a public footpath to tape off.Another donation for the scouts who let us use the tents!!!! the list goes on.If we had a camp site to start with i am sure our cost would be next to nothing. If your lucky anough to have a site then thats magic it will take the sting out of the organisation. If yourself or anybody else wants to use the hunt signs there only a postal service away.I am a big fan of keeping the cost low and i,m sure you would agree that 20 quid per head for a weekend of hovering thats nearly free.

keith rhodes - n/a
25-Oct-08, 12:37 PM
the comments keith oakley made on the opportunity to live stream racing would i am sure attract "outside interest" . watching the updates from the worlds was very good. we should try to help keith do this if the club can.

what about the cruisers putting up a recording of events for people logging into the HCGB site to view. strap a helmet cam on and do a little editing later. this might show members and non members alike an insight into the cruising side of the club and help promote it.

i was dissapointed that Nick had a "waste of time passing cruising editorial". it does make interesting reading to see what others do and we should encourage reports from cruising events - regardless of private /hcgb status of the event.

sixpackpert - n/a
25-Oct-08, 12:55 PM
what about the cruisers putting up a recording of events for people logging into the HCGB site to view. strap a helmet cam on and do a little editing later. this might show members and non members alike an insight into the cruising side of the club and help promote it.




There's already this sort of thing on the Cruising forum, it's gaining momentum from the events this year. Hopefully with as many or more cruises next year this will have a snow ball effect.



It is a shame that there wasn't a write up for the Treasure Hunt for the magazine. Doing a write up for the mag is time consuming if you want to make a really good write up and when you look through back issues many of the same contributors keep cropping up. There is plenty of content for the magazine that can be taken from this Bulletin Board if the editor is struggling for content or even if they are not for that matter Maybe a monthly 'Round up from the Forums' feature could be done publishing useful/humorous/cruise report threads from this board. Can be easily cut and pasted from the board.



How about making the mag a 2 monthly publication? With 2 months to get articles done it may take the rush out of publishing the mag. It would also make it a thicker, more substantial publication. During the summer the mag could comprise of 2 or 3 race reports, possibly the same for cruises, a couple of technical articles (both new and old, you have to remember that new people are joining the club that haven't read some of the technical articles from years ago. Me included!). Just a thought.



Just my 2 pence on a Saturday afternoon...now back to Google Earth.

hectorshouse46 - n/a
25-Oct-08, 08:21 PM
I've been looking in to attaching a camcorder to the Vanguard and also some kind of helmet cam, just for fun, who knows it may make for interesting viewing especially if the quality is good and of course the subject matter!!!

If anyone has made or knows of a nice well damped low cost DIY cam corder mount for a craft please tell.



Steve

GavinParson - n/a
25-Oct-08, 09:09 PM
If you just have a fixed camera the footage is quite boring. It's more interesting when you look around, back through the fan/prop and down at your spray or wash. Better to take a passenger with a steady hand.

keith rhodes - n/a
26-Oct-08, 02:00 PM
yes, Gavin is quite correct. the mistake is to fix the cam to the hovercraft which spends a considerable ammount of time sideways so the veiwer sees the hedges etc at track side, much better to fix the cam to the helmetside so the view is what the driver is looking at ( hopefully forward!)

keith_b - n/a
26-Oct-08, 02:20 PM
Some cameras for wet use...



http://www.oregonscientific.co.uk/sub_actioncam.htm



Keith

hectorshouse46 - n/a
26-Oct-08, 04:18 PM
The type of cruising I do means I don't spend that much time sideways but the helmet camera is probably the better option from sn interest point of view.



Steve

Hovertrekker - n/a
27-Oct-08, 12:12 PM
Check these guys out if you want serious helmet cam equipment that actually works. http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/index.html

I have a bullet cam/dvr system on my hover. I find good results from mounting a bullet cam on a monopod which is solidly fixed to some structure such a seat back. Then you can turn the camera in any direction with one hand while driving. The dvr sits in a small pouch on your belt or by your side. Turn the cam on/off with an simple switch on the pouch. I've used it to record hours of cruising and racing footage also by putting the cam in a velcro mount on top of my helmet. 1 4GB SD card lets you record about 4 hours of video. (compressed 640x480 res @30 frames/sec)