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c.s.frazer
31-Jul-09, 05:47 PM
HELLO EVERYONE
ALERT: THREAD RELOCATED DUE TO TITLE CONFUSION
THE NEW THREAD IS LOCATED AT:http://www.hovercraft.org.uk/showthread.php?p=67268#post67268
Please, if you want to make a comment or offer advice etc, Please do so on the NEW thread link. Thank you, C.S.Frazer.


Hi Guys :)

THE PROJECT CONTINUES!

Hello everyone. As you may have noticed, I haven't made any posts since last July. This is entirely down to me, making great and idiotic miscaculations with my timescale and workload. As I have said before, I am a school child (now 14!:eek:) and, as most adolocent teenage males of this species do, I forget tto do things, and educational stuff takes over. Basically, I started to get alot more homework and GCSE preperation work for all my subject :( . This coupled with more vigerouse and numerous Rugby trainning sessions, the forum page slipped my mind. There isn't really an excuse in that, but thats why I haven't posted anything for such a long time, sorry about that :blush:.

My lack of postage, however, does not meen that I have given up with the project! Far from it, I have infact in the past few weeks, made real progress on the construction of the beast. Granted that the planning stage of the project went on for FAR to long, everything has finally been settled and put into its motions. I am about one sixth of the way throug the hull contruction on the eagle 4, I am beginning the process of attaching the softwood ribs to the cocpit sides, and then it will be a case of adding the cocpit decking! All the wood (20x20 20x40 3mm ply 6mm ply & 9mm ply) has been bought. I still need to find a 900mm duct, which will probably come from Ken from K & M Products. The plywood section were cut out on an industrial scale CNC router- although this may seem like cheating, I did actually spend about 3 hours down at the CNC plant, putting the drawings into a CAD system which can be intepreted by the computer that operates the machine. Thus all the plywood is cut to a precise and error free standard.
The 20x20 and 20x40 soft wood battons were cut out at my Grandads factory on his saw mill. I am writing this after coming back inside the nice warm office building from the cold a chilly forest of dean air lying around outside (it smells a bit like a chicken farm at the moment:)) where I have been working on the very craft, preping it for the rib installation.
I come down here now pretty much every saturday now, although it may seem like a LOOONG time to take to get to this stage, I only really began construction a month ago. My Grandad helps out when he can, as does my uncle Rich (Richard), I also have two regular helpers-Norman and Louis(Loi)-who have been very useful in tutoring me and helping out, without them I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am now, they both have backgrounds in the engineering industrie, Louis used to work in a boat yard he has been a maintinance man for many years and is a dab hand with anything mechanicle, Norman used to manage factories and worked in many different engineering enviroments. So they are both experts in this field, which helps alot! Many others have helped me along the way, but I have not the space to list them all on here, nor the time to writ them down!
I am building the craft at my Grandads factory. Where he fabricates one of the most advanced and safe asbestos removal systems available in the modern market (and thats not just a biast Grandsons prattle!). I am working on a very well constructed workbench, it about 16 ft by 9 ft. Everything is very easy to do since the bench is in a large workshop area with alot of space around it. I have been very lucky with all the help I have recieved with the project so far and am very grateful for it all :thumbup: .

I know I promised a blog and regular updates, maybe even some videos, and that will come, but unfortunately that all had to take a sideline because I have been having difficulties with getting camera that will upload photos to my computer. But I will try to set up a blog ASAP so that my project will be a little more accessible to you all and a little more posh :D.

The engine subsequently, has been changed from the originally suggested rotax 503, to a 600cc bandit engine. I have decided to use this engine, because its about the same size as the Rotax, if not a little heavier, but its almost twice as powerful. It also cost 75 as opposed to 500 for a rotax :thumbup: .

Finally, I have a few pressing questions I would like to ask of your most knowledgable selves as with regards to certain aspects of the craft construction. Firstly, I am stuck as with regards to the fan blades, hub and belt drive system. It looks like we are goin to have to buy it from K & M products, but its looking to be a little bit to expensive :( if anyone knows where I could get something just as good for cheaper, then I would be most grateful.
Secondly, I need to know whether it will be worth coating the entire craft in a water proof epoxy-resin of some description, as I am starting to have problems in my mind with the watertightness of this thing.

Well thats about all for now, but stay tuned because I WILL be updating this page, and hopefully soon a blog, with more info on how I am doing.

All the best
C.S.Frazer

:)





Hi, I am a 13 year old school boy, with a big task in mind.

In the 8th year at my school all pupils are required to do a year round project, it can be anything from making a a mini film to a corset to a 13 foot catamaran. The only specific criteria are that you must have a visible result at the end, and you must have learned a new skill or have better knowledge of a skill than at the beginning of the project.

So, me being me, I decided that I wanted to build a full sized hovercraft. Ever since I was 5 when my granddad gave me a model SNR4, I have dreamed of building my own. When the time came for me to choose what I would make for my project I thought this would be a perfect opportunity to fulfill my dream.

So, the term start on September the third 2009 and the project must be finished by may 2010. And I have decided to hit the ground running, by starting a little bit earlier. The hovercraft in question which I wish to build is a Universal hovercraft UH-12T4 (page link:http://www.hovercraft.com/content/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=33_43(also if yo google UH-12T4 there are quite a few good sites showing detailed construction photos from start to finish). I chose this craft because of its ability to hold 2 to 3 persons, relatively simple construction and the fact that it looks very good. I have already brought the plans for this craft and intend to start construction ASAP!

The purpose of this post is to draw on the immense wealth of knowledgethat is contained within the Hovercraft Club of Great Britain and it members. I already have quite a few people who can contribute in major way to this project, I.E. supplying materials at discounted rates, using their D.I.Y/engineering skills to ade my poor knowledge of vehicle construction, and just general advice. But what I really need is people with experience in building hovercraft(or Ground effect machines). So if anyone can help in any way whatsoever please post on your advice this topic or e-mail me at c_frazer@hotmail.co.uk. Please share your knowledge with me as I need it desperately.

Below I have included a brief overview of the UH-12T4 model.

Capacity 2 to 3 Persons Payload 450 Lbs Speed 40 mph Hover Height 8 inches Length 12 ft 5 in Width 6 ft Empty Weight 375 Lbs Flotation 1500 Lbs Climb Gradient 14 to 22% Engines 3.5 to 7 hp lift (under 35 Lbs), 8 to 15 hp thrust (under 65 Lbs) Construction Method Wood Rib and Plywood Skin Construction Time 175 hours

UPDATE:01

Hello again, just a few more bits and bobs.
Firstly, I am now considering building an Eagle 1 or 3 hovercraft (links:1http://www.avdw32.dsl.pipex.com/eagle_1.htm
3http://www.avdw32.dsl.pipex.com/eagle_3.htm)instead of the UH-12T4, partly becuase of there much more simpler contruction, but also becuse they are both intergrated models and use a finger skirt, a design a favour over the bag type skirt. Do you think I should keep to th UH-12T4 or opt for these much more,"First Time Builder Friendly" plan?
Secondly the budget isn't exactly fixed, but I cannot afford anything really above 200-300, but(and thats a big BUT)My granddad owns a well sized unit on a construction business estate, and there he has most of the tool I will need. Also since he has many contact I can get a lot of the things I will need at majorly discounted prices. Also I plan on getting as much off it as I can recycled, from scrap yards and-dare I say the word-scrounged.
Thirdly , we are currently having problems locating a good supplier of Styrofoam. Please, if anyone can help on this,"Its a BIGY!".
Fourthly, I am also a bit ignorant as to the fan/s that I should be using. As aa first time builder, do you think I should be making my own fans or buying them in and if so from where and what type?
Lastly, I am meeting on Wednesday with My granddad and my uncle-both expert engineers-who are the major contributers to this project, to discus and plan out what we need costs hovercraft types etc... So basically by Wednesday we will have(or should have almost)finalized our plan of action. I shall be making a mini blog of the project through all of its stages, and I shall post the link to the site when it is up and running, and the first post has been Posted.
Yours sincerely C.S.Frazer.

Update 02

Just a small budget update, for the UH-12T4 we have been able to source a lift engine for 75 and a thrust engine 144, as for the eagle we haven't really looked into that so far but I am beginning to do some research into it. Budget has been really toned down because I can get allot of the materials for FREE(or at a greatly reduced cost). My personal budget is around 300 but as I say, before Wednesday I am not entirely sure. Thanks for all the great advice you have given me so far, it really has helped me in this project. All the best, C.S.Frazer .

Update 03

Just a quick question before the main update, is it recommended, or is it possible to use plastics instead of ply and fiberglass??

UPDATE!!!!!

Hello Everyone!
PROGRESS: Now I have painted the underside of the craft, and the air flow duct-area which will be covered up once the plaining surfaces go on. Before that, I covered all the joints in a super strong slightly flexible vehicle mastic, which ended up taking twice as long as I thought (plus a very sore hand due to the stiffness of the mastic and the power needed to push it out). This seems though, to have made the craft twice as strong, which is lucky since wwe have just transported it about 30-40 miles over quite rough terrain and only one piece was damaged! :-) I have also cut out (with help- infact most of it has had to be done with help) some polysterene for floatation aid, should the craft be marooned out in a river or a lake.

WHATS HAPPENING NEXT?? Well, the plaining surfaces are going to be attached to the ribs., this involves the ever so common job of fiberglassing 8=) apparently its quie easy so im looking foward to it . To attach the plaining surfaces to the ribs, im going to use guerilla glue (super-glue) and a very satisfying nail-gun.

SO AS THE MOST FAMOUSE AND IRRITATING BUNNY OF THE AMERICAS WOULD SAY...
"THATS ALL FOR NOW FOLKS!!"

Jon Pert
31-Jul-09, 05:58 PM
Hi and welcome. Where are you based? It may be worth popping along to your local branch to meet and chat with like minded hoverers.

You've certainly come to the right place for advice.

broad5186
1-Aug-09, 01:13 PM
hi you seem very motivated and that's excellent, i have no experience of building the particular craft you mention but have built a few craft now, feel free to ask questions

do you have a budget for the build, that might influence things

good luck

tony

Penny Lovell
3-Aug-09, 04:07 PM
CS Fraser

Welcome to the Club. I am the Youth Officer for the Hoverclub and a teacher of D&T. I must say you have taken on a big task. I do think you may find your budget is a bit slim, engines and fans are the costly part, most of the rest you can get locally. The best advice I can give you is get in contact with local hoverclub members, they are a wealth of knowledge and often can help you with sourcing parts.
If you would like an informal chat you can PM me and we can take it from there, I can try to put you in touch with a more local member.

I admire your idea and would like to help you if at all possible.

Best Regards

Keith Lovell
Bearwood College
Wokingham,
Berkshire.

Jon Pert
3-Aug-09, 04:29 PM
Fourthly, I am also a bit ignorant as to the fan/s that I should be using. As aa first time builder, do you think I should be making my own fans or buying them in and if so from where and what type?


Do not scrimp on the blades. Buy new, fan failures are costly and potentially very dangerous. Have a look at the suppliers here http://www.hovercraft.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=28. Vortex are distributors of Hascon blades and hubs. K&M also supply blades and hubs. I should get in touch with them and have a chat about what you need. If you are going for an Eagle then give Ken a call at K&M. Keith from Vortex is on the Rhone Raid at the mo so you won't get a reply from them until next week some time I would imagine. The transmission side (belt, pulleys, blades, hub, coupling etc) is critical and not worth cutting corners on.

As Keith says, your budget is a bit on the slim side but, like you say, after Wednesday you may have a better idea of what you've got and what you'll need.

Keep us updated. :D

c.s.frazer
16-Feb-10, 02:28 PM
HELLO EVERYONE
ALERT: THREAD RELOCATED DUE TO TITLE CONFUSION
THE NEW THREAD IS LOCATED AT:http://www.hovercraft.org.uk/showthread.php?p=66726#post66726

Please, if you want to make a comment or offer advice etc, Please do so on the NEW thread link. Thank you, C.S.Frazer.


Hi Guys :)

THE PROJECT CONTINUES!

Hello everyone. As you may have noticed, I haven't made any posts since last July. This is entirely down to me, making great and idiotic miscaculations with my timescale and workload. As I have said before, I am a school child (now 14!:eek:) and, as most adolocent teenage males of this species do, I forget tto do things, and educational stuff takes over. Basically, I started to get alot more homework and GCSE preperation work for all my subject :( . This coupled with more vigerouse and numerous Rugby trainning sessions, the forum page slipped my mind. There isn't really an excuse in that, but thats why I haven't posted anything for such a long time, sorry about that :blush:.

My lack of postage, however, does not meen that I have given up with the project! Far from it, I have infact in the past few weeks, made real progress on the construction of the beast. Granted that the planning stage of the project went on for FAR to long, everything has finally been settled and put into its motions. I am about one sixth of the way throug the hull contruction on the eagle 4, I am beginning the process of attaching the softwood ribs to the cocpit sides, and then it will be a case of adding the cocpit decking! All the wood (20x20 20x40 3mm ply 6mm ply & 9mm ply) has been bought. I still need to find a 900mm duct, which will probably come from Ken from K & M Products. The plywood section were cut out on an industrial scale CNC router- although this may seem like cheating, I did actually spend about 3 hours down at the CNC plant, putting the drawings into a CAD system which can be intepreted by the computer that operates the machine. Thus all the plywood is cut to a precise and error free standard.
The 20x20 and 20x40 soft wood battons were cut out at my Grandads factory on his saw mill. I am writing this after coming back inside the nice warm office building from the cold a chilly forest of dean air lying around outside (it smells a bit like a chicken farm at the moment:)) where I have been working on the very craft, preping it for the rib installation.
I come down here now pretty much every saturday now, although it may seem like a LOOONG time to take to get to this stage, I only really began construction a month ago. My Grandad helps out when he can, as does my uncle Rich (Richard), I also have two regular helpers-Norman and Louis(Loi)-who have been very useful in tutoring me and helping out, without them I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am now, they both have backgrounds in the engineering industrie, Louis used to work in a boat yard he has been a maintinance man for many years and is a dab hand with anything mechanicle, Norman used to manage factories and worked in many different engineering enviroments. So they are both experts in this field, which helps alot! Many others have helped me along the way, but I have not the space to list them all on here, nor the time to writ them down!
I am building the craft at my Grandads factory. Where he fabricates one of the most advanced and safe asbestos removal systems available in the modern market (and thats not just a biast Grandsons prattle!). I am working on a very well constructed workbench, it about 16 ft by 9 ft. Everything is very easy to do since the bench is in a large workshop area with alot of space around it. I have been very lucky with all the help I have recieved with the project so far and am very grateful for it all :thumbup: .

I know I promised a blog and regular updates, maybe even some videos, and that will come, but unfortunately that all had to take a sideline because I have been having difficulties with getting camera that will upload photos to my computer. But I will try to set up a blog ASAP so that my project will be a little more accessible to you all and a little more posh :D.

The engine subsequently, has been changed from the originally suggested rotax 503, to a 600cc bandit engine. I have decided to use this engine, because its about the same size as the Rotax, if not a little heavier, but its almost twice as powerful. It also cost 75 as opposed to 500 for a rotax :thumbup: .

Finally, I have a few pressing questions I would like to ask of your most knowledgable selves as with regards to certain aspects of the craft construction. Firstly, I am stuck as with regards to the fan blades, hub and belt drive system. It looks like we are goin to have to buy it from K & M products, but its looking to be a little bit to expensive :( if anyone knows where I could get something just as good for cheaper, then I would be most grateful.
Secondly, I need to know whether it will be worth coating the entire craft in a water proof epoxy-resin of some description, as I am starting to have problems in my mind with the watertightness of this thing.

Well thats about all for now, but stay tuned because I WILL be updating this page, and hopefully soon a blog, with more info on how I am doing.

All the best
C.S.Frazer

:)

c.s.frazer
16-Feb-10, 03:13 PM
The fan blades I am looking for are 5z fan blades. So far I have found one american company who sell them http://www.multi-wing.net/zseries/index.htm.

Thanks,
C.S.Frazer

the goose
17-Feb-10, 06:25 AM
hi

you can get the multiwing 5z from k&m products.or you can get the 5z equivalent in hasconwing from vortex.

good luck

rick

c.s.frazer
17-Feb-10, 12:14 PM
hi

you can get the multiwing 5z from k&m products.or you can get the 5z equivalent in hasconwing from vortex.

good luck

rick

:thumbup: Ok, thanks, unfortunately these seem to be a little bit more expensive than the ones that Ken sells, is the average price for these kind of blades usually around 90?

Kind regard
C.S.Frazer

curtis5420
17-Feb-10, 06:41 PM
yep thats what you will pay for a set,

its extremly doubtfull multiwing will sell them to you direct, if you say hovercraft you have no chance.

unfortuneatly, the blades, hubs, ducts are the expensive bits, and i would say ken is your best choice, one of his ducts is 100quid ish, as it a fan and hub.

the belt drives, bearings etc can be done cheaper using bearings blocks, making your own shafts and frames etc. will save money (got a machine shop at college/school)?
or these can be bought off the shelf from ken.

how are you going to get the PTO off the bandit engine? there is a company that does sprocket adpaters for kit cars, which could be modified to take a flexible coupling to drive the bottom shaft, but these are 100quid, before you start!

the rotax would have been easier/simpler to get power off the crank, but not as suitable in an eagle 4, which assume you want to cruise in? bandit engine is a bit of a monster, but like your way of thinking :)

Ian Brooks
17-Feb-10, 07:27 PM
the belt drives, bearings etc can be done cheaper using bearings blocks, making your own shafts and frames etc. will save money

I like these guys:

Bearing Boys (http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Bearings-1005-c?gclid=CO-8i8Ca-p8CFZEA4wod_ljAWg)

Ian

shull3
23-Feb-10, 04:39 PM
This is a big project for a 14 year old! I build this model in 2003 with my teenage son and we are still enjoying cruising with it. I have a few sugestions after owning this for a few years. If you have not already put the skins on (plywood ) coat these with Smiths CPES http://www.smithandcompany.org/CPES/index.html This will seal the plywood and make it more resistant to the elements. It is a good foundation to paint and other epoxy products. It goes on like water and penetrates the wood fibers. It doesn't add much weight and will do the job of one coat of primer when you are ready to paint. The other thought is to not vary from the plans. Weight is your enemy!!!!!!. This design is a minimally powered craft but does perform as advertised if built per plan. The duct size and engine you are thinking of is probably not correct for this design. We have used the plan 42" duct with a 42/21 wood prop and an 18 hp 4 stroke and get OK performance. We are going to upgrade the duct to 54" with a 25hp vertical but this is only after much redesign and consultation. This is not a first build mod that I reccomend. If you want to use your 2 stroke you can not run a direct drive on the fan! The RPM will be way to high. We use more props in the US. I have tried a fan and the prop is much more efficient on our craft. i noticed that you where thinking of coating your engine with an epoxy coating. There is probably a high temperature Epoxy paint out their but standard epoxy will turn to jelly at high temperatures! Make sure the epoxy will take the temps.We painted our engine with standard rattle can enamel and it has heald up well. Other thoughts will come as you get further into the build. Don't get discouraged. ours took 4 years of sundays to get flying! Here is a recent picture of Ice hovering in Michigan. Lots of fun! Good luck with your project.

c.s.frazer
24-Feb-10, 05:46 PM
This is a big project for a 14 year old! I build this model in 2003 with my teenage son and we are still enjoying cruising with it. I have a few sugestions after owning this for a few years. If you have not already put the skins on (plywood ) coat these with Smiths CPES http://www.smithandcompany.org/CPES/index.html This will seal the plywood and make it more resistant to the elements. It is a good foundation to paint and other epoxy products. It goes on like water and penetrates the wood fibers. It doesn't add much weight and will do the job of one coat of primer when you are ready to paint. The other thought is to not vary from the plans. Weight is your enemy!!!!!!. This design is a minimally powered craft but does perform as advertised if built per plan. The duct size and engine you are thinking of is probably not correct for this design. We have used the plan 42" duct with a 42/21 wood prop and an 18 hp 4 stroke and get OK performance. We are going to upgrade the duct to 54" with a 25hp vertical but this is only after much redesign and consultation. This is not a first build mod that I reccomend. If you want to use your 2 stroke you can not run a direct drive on the fan! The RPM will be way to high. We use more props in the US. I have tried a fan and the prop is much more efficient on our craft. i noticed that you where thinking of coating your engine with an epoxy coating. There is probably a high temperature Epoxy paint out their but standard epoxy will turn to jelly at high temperatures! Make sure the epoxy will take the temps.We painted our engine with standard rattle can enamel and it has heald up well. Other thoughts will come as you get further into the build. Don't get discouraged. ours took 4 years of sundays to get flying! Here is a recent picture of Ice hovering in Michigan. Lots of fun! Good luck with your project.

Hi! thanks for the advice.

I think that I may be at cross purpouses with you, and I think I may need to start a new thread to avoid confusion, I am actually building an eagle 4 craft as I changed my mind due to the sketchness of the Uh plans, I could have worked them out with help over some time, but the eagle 4 plan and designs are easier to understand. , is that the model you were refering to? I thought that the engine was a 45hp rotax as opposed 18hp. The Eagle 4 is an integrated craft, with one engine. But that epoxy penetrating sealer may come in useful, thanks.

Yours
C.S.Frazer

c.s.frazer
24-Feb-10, 06:15 PM
HELLO EVERYONE
ALERT: THREAD RELOCATED DUE TO TITLE CONFUSION
THE NEW THREAD IS LOCATED AT:http://www.hovercraft.org.uk/showthread.php?p=67268#post67268
Please, if you want to make a comment or offer advice etc, Please do so on the NEW thread link. Thank you, C.S.Frazer.

shull3
26-Feb-10, 01:34 PM
HELLO EVERYONE

ALERT: THREAD RELOCATED DUE TO TITLE CONFUSION
THE NEW THREAD IS LOCATED AT:http://www.hovercraft.org.uk/showthread.php?p=66726#post66726


Please, if you want to make a comment or offer advice etc, Please do so on the NEW thread link. Thank you, C.S.Frazer.

I think that the plans for the UH 12T4 are verry sketchy! They do have most of the info if you dig and compare sheets. The plan that you are building looks very interesting. I have not seen this craft in action. Forget all of the comments I made about the 12T4 this is a very different craft. The epoxy sealer is still a good idea. Good luck with your project and hope that you will be cruising sometime this year.