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Thread: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

  1. #65
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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    It's not that simple, unfortunately. WHF events are only held once every 2 years so the rules only get tried and tested once every 2 years and the WHF only meet to change the rules once every 2 years, so development is slow and tends to be a bit reactive to solitary events, hence the orange helmet rule because of one incident at the Swedish WHF event 4 years ago. Note that the WHF regulations haven't changed since 2009!

    National race regulations are developed to suit the requirements of that nation - we race 7 or 8 times a year so our regs are thoroughtly tried and tested, and are reviewed every year to reflect the needs and wants of our drivers, and to reflect the feedback from our race events from participants, marshalls and other officials. Our F35 and F503 are particularly seen as "drivers" championships and have developed to suit our particular requirements - remember that UK started both these formulae and they are now recognised at world level. If we hadn't tried them out and showed that there was an appetite for these formulae the WHF regs would never have been changed to include them.

    The EHF have seen fit to develop things in a different direction and dropped F3 completely, and their Juniors entry craft are F50. Each nation has a different approach to Health & Safety, and a different perception of risk. We have developed rules for our Juniors which are different - we want to encourage the use of craft which can be shared more widely, so our Juniors could use F3, F35 and F50 depending on their experience and abilities.

    Other countries have other requirements, so it is only right that their regulations should reflect their needs and wants. The regulations across the world broadly fit the formula classifications that we all recognise. However if we all stuck with the WHF regs as the basis for everyone there would be no development, formulae would not evolve and craft would not develop - we would stagnate. It is only through regulations changes by the likes of HCGB and EHF which are regularly tried and tested in regular competitions that the WHF regs are ever likely to evolve or keep up with craft developments.

    Kevin

  2. #66
    Forum God > 400 posts Club Member Jon Pert's Avatar
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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by foster2958 View Post
    It's not that simple, unfortunately. WHF events are only held once every 2 years so the rules only get tried and tested once every 2 years and the WHF only meet to change the rules once every 2 years, so development is slow and tends to be a bit reactive to solitary events, hence the orange helmet rule because of one incident at the Swedish WHF event 4 years ago. Note that the WHF regulations haven't changed since 2009!

    National race regulations are developed to suit the requirements of that nation - we race 7 or 8 times a year so our regs are thoroughtly tried and tested, and are reviewed every year to reflect the needs and wants of our drivers, and to reflect the feedback from our race events from participants, marshalls and other officials. Our F35 and F503 are particularly seen as "drivers" championships and have developed to suit our particular requirements - remember that UK started both these formulae and they are now recognised at world level. If we hadn't tried them out and showed that there was an appetite for these formulae the WHF regs would never have been changed to include them.

    The EHF have seen fit to develop things in a different direction and dropped F3 completely, and their Juniors entry craft are F50. Each nation has a different approach to Health & Safety, and a different perception of risk. We have developed rules for our Juniors which are different - we want to encourage the use of craft which can be shared more widely, so our Juniors could use F3, F35 and F50 depending on their experience and abilities.

    Other countries have other requirements, so it is only right that their regulations should reflect their needs and wants. The regulations across the world broadly fit the formula classifications that we all recognise. However if we all stuck with the WHF regs as the basis for everyone there would be no development, formulae would not evolve and craft would not develop - we would stagnate. It is only through regulations changes by the likes of HCGB and EHF which are regularly tried and tested in regular competitions that the WHF regs are ever likely to evolve or keep up with craft developments.

    Kevin
    I have to disagree with this Kevin (shocker!).

    I don't see that regularity of events has anything to do with it. The World Cup is every 4 years, as is the Olympics. Footballers and athletes don't compete to different rules at national events compared with European or World events.

    Why is the Hovercraft World so different? Because none of us want to compromise for the better good IMHO.
    Cheers

    SixpackPert



    "Computer games don't affect kids. If Pacman would have affected us as children, we would now run around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music"

  3. #67
    Forum God > 400 posts Club Member Jon Pert's Avatar
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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    Here's another quick thought.

    Have the HCGB made a rod for it's own back by having too many formulas?

    More formulas can only do one thing and that is make the grids smaller. We have many races over the course of a weekend but with small grids.

    Going back to Tony B's suggestion of rating formulas by HP this would lower the number of formulas so making the grids bigger so making the spectacle better? It would also encourage development to be at the top of the tree, not stifle it IMHO.

    We seem to be at a point now that we give out nearly as many trophies at a weekend as there are craft attending!

    Just thinking out loud.
    Cheers

    SixpackPert



    "Computer games don't affect kids. If Pacman would have affected us as children, we would now run around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music"

  4. #68
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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    Jon

    In comparison with the sports you refer to, we are in our infantcy. Millions of game of football are played every year, and the sport has a long history. The rules of the game now bear no resemblance to those from when it first started. In the early days there were numerous variations of the game, from town to town let alone nation from nation. Sports evolve and as they get older and more mature the changes get smaller and the standards become common through a wider area. Consider also that from a common ancestor we now have football, american football, rugby union, rugby league and I'm sure many other forms of ball kicking team sports. Each of those developments must have been an almighty shock when they tried something different for the first time, but now are accepted in their own right. There are plenty of other sports, I am sure, which have more than one governing body, each of which has similar but slightly different rules and regulations.

    Motor sports by their nature need to evolve faster because the technology changes faster. If hovercrafting is to survive and thrive we need to explore change, try new ideas and test them in a real environment. WHF is only once every 2 years and isn't the place for new ideas. National championships are where new ideas can be tested and developed, and when they are thrashed into shape can then move up to the international level if there is sufficient demand for them, but if we do not push the envelope even a little bit with new ideas we'll all be racing the same craft in 10 or 20 years time if we haven't died out altogether.

    Kevin

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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Pert View Post
    Have the HCGB made a rod for it's own back by having too many formulas?

    More formulas can only do one thing and that is make the grids smaller. We have many races over the course of a weekend but with small grids.
    We have more formulae but we also have more craft and more drivers attending when compared with EHF events, for example. Twice as many Novices and four-five times as many Juniors means that we have new members coming up and this means we must be doing something right. Our grid sizes are comparable or better than EHF events despite running more formulae.

    Formulae based on HP are unlikely to ever take off as a valid alternative. It is impossible to measure in the field and so could not be policed or controlled. If you try to use thrust as a basis for measurement you have the problem of comparing twin engine craft with integrated ones, and the possibility that by tweaking the blades that you move from one formula to another if thrust is used as a measure of HP. There are too many other factors which would influence this - the efficiency of flow-straighteners, size of duct, type of blades and make and so on. Competitors need the reassurance that they are entering for a particular formula and can design and build accordingly. Engine capacity and single make formulae are currently the only reliable methods we can use to achieve this.

    Kevin

  6. #70
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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    some interesting points - i still think HP/Thrust is a potential way forward, thrust/weight even fairer - perhaps we could do a confidential and anonymous test, test the current field (voluntarily) and see how craft/formulae/percieved Hp compare, results can be comparative rather than figures given out

    the key here is Hp and thrust are related, there is a limit to how much thrust any Hp can deliver

    i.e. top five F503 within 10% of each other or F3 5% higher than 503 or lift engined F2's producing 20% more than integrated

    this could lead to a system which can easily differentiate between lift engined/shaftie and integrated craft

    weight and thrust are easy to measure in the field, easier than any other system and random testing easily achievable

  7. #71
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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    Just my view - i think there are too many classes at the moment.
    The WHF should set the classes for the 2016 worlds at the 2012 worlds and then it is up to the EHF and HCGB if thay follow or not but at least you would have four years notice.

    My view on the fomulas are:

    1 Watercooled 250cc or 500cc aircooled

    2 Above 500cc

    3 Juniors as per class 1

    4 novice as per rule 1

  8. #72
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    Default Re: No F3 or Endurance Racing at 2012 Worlds

    i like the simplicity Lee - i'd still like to see F1 as an unlimited class

    i think we should at least experiment combining 250 watercooled and 500 air cooled - everybody will drop their spanners and watch that race - let's ask drivers at hackets

    what about a volunteer F3 and 503's one off race to see what happens - i'm up for it

    tony

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